The Return of the Video Games Thread

[Vlad!]

I don't know if any of you pholks have played Saints Row 2 or not, but it's a sandbox game (like Grand Theft Auto). I normally try to stay away from those games for the same reason that I stay away from MMORPGs, but a college buddy and I got into the original Saints Row back during our college days, and it's actually pretty fun to play with a friend.

Anyway, he visited a few weeks ago and brought Saints Row 2. It's basically the same game with a new "plot" and a few new features added. I played around with it a bit on my own and we had this conversation via IM today (note that 'homies' are that game's term for 'party members'):

Nathan: Also, I discovered that your homies don't have parachutes.
Nathan: Getting a bunch of homies in a plane and making them bail out and splatter is my new favorite activity.
Chris: That sounds wonderful.  I didn't even think of asking them to get into a plane.
Nathan: They scream all the way down.
Chris: Haha.
Nathan: I am obviously a horrible person, but it's hilarious.
Chris: I'm tempted to boot the game just to do that.
Chris: If only you could somehow catch them on fire.
Nathan: I sing "it's raining men" to myself while I'm doing it for extra amusement.
Chris: Lol.

Obviously the fun in the game isn't playing through the story so much as doing ridiculous things with the game engine, which is why it's called a 'sandbox' game.

(I'm not much offended by the violence in the game, but I do wish there were an option to turn off the profanity. I'm not sure what that says about me that I'm OK with a wad of blood spurting out as my character shoots someone in the head so long as he doesn't say a vulgar word while doing it, but it's probably not good.)

[Brenden]

I have played that game. I think I spent the better part of an hour just running around burning people with a flamethrower. Yes, I used cheat codes, but I only played the game to faff about for a while, not as a serious gamer.

[Vlad!]

I have played that game. I think I spent the better part of an hour just running around burning people with a flamethrower. Yes, I used cheat codes, but I only played the game to faff about for a while, not as a serious gamer.

Heh, I don't think that a lot of people play that game as a serious gamer

In fact, there are activities you can do which give you flamethrowers and chainsaws and RPG launchers and it's pretty much your job to cause as much havoc with them as you can. In fact, I think the only reason my friend and I played any of the game's missions was to gain money and unlock new stuff so we could then cause mayhem more efficiently.

(Exploration is also fun; we spent a long time climbing around on a construction site and throwing things off the scaffolding to see what happens when they hit the ground. Not only is it interesting to just explore this world the developers have created, the game rewards you for it by hiding things in the world that you can then find. Also, you will find things like fighter planes and assault helicopters, which you can then steal and enjoy.)

[RavishingJohnny23]

I'm finally up on the NextGen consoles. Got a PS3 in January and I am just getting around to Infamous, Unchartered: Drake's Fortune, and Batman: Arkham Asylim.  I was killing it on the game WET until my brother essentially lost it. I enjoy that game ALOT.

[Vlad!]

The PS3 still has a long way to go if it wants to reach the illustrious heights of its predecessor, but there are certainly some good titles for the console. Unfortunately, I haven't found the time yet to actually play most of them. At some point in my life I will carve out enough hours for Valkyria Chronicle and Final Fantasy XIII.

[RavishingJohnny23]

Yeah it has SO much potential though. I'm going to just binge on video games August 20th-27th during the first week of my summer vacation. I'm taking summer school so I can graduate college early.  But I think I'll finally get around to Dante's Inferno, Unchartered 2, and a couple other titles then. I trying to round out my gaming game and break away from being sports games guy but I get so wrapped up in the dynasty modes.

[Brenden]

Checked out Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story.

That was a lot of fun to play, I loved the gameplay, the animation, the humor, it was nice to play an RPG that didn't take itself seriously.

My issues were few, these were that I hated the giant battles. Every time one happened I groaned and dreaded the aggravation that would shortly follow. The first and last aren't quite as bad, but the battle against the tower had me just about pulling my hair out in frustration and the fight with the train just pissed me off. Most of the mini-games where you have to use the stylus were annoying as well, for instance, the carrot mini game.

Despite that, I loved it and don't regret buying it.

[Vlad!]

Have you played any of the other handheld Mario RPGs? I'm curious how Bowser's Inside Story compares.

Honestly I only played the first one (Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga) for the GBA. I liked its feel, and it seemed to be well executed. However, I had trouble getting into the idea of Partners in Time, so I never bothered to pick it up.

[Brenden]

I haven't played the other M&L games, but I played the original Mario RPG and Paper Mario. Fans of those games won't be disappointed by Bowser's Inside Story. I do kind of miss the Paper Mario series' gimmick of having the different sidekicks with unique abilities that you could summon for specific battles, since it added a little more strategy to battles. But not much has changed about the mechanics besides the stylus gimmicks, which I don't think work as well overall, though it does lead to some hilariously absurd combo moves (There's one where bowser cleans the dirt off a dog before it attacks the foe with an army of kittens.

[RavishingJohnny23]

So I'm getting Red Dead Redemption tomorrow. I keep hearing how awesome it is. We'll find otu since I'm not going on my vacation for another month.

[Vlad!]

So I'm getting Red Dead Redemption tomorrow. I keep hearing how awesome it is. We'll find otu since I'm not going on my vacation for another month.

Let us know how it is!

[RavishingJohnny23]

Will do. I'm pretty excited about it. I love westerns. So this makes me giddy.

[Vlad!]

I cut the following amusing anecdote from my Final Fantasy X retrospective (coming soon to a Phorum near you), but I still think it's worth sharing.

I've never really seen the point of how some RPGs let me name the main character. I don't feel like it adds anything to the game, and usually a hero with no name ends up being a hero with no personality as well, so the protagonist just gets jerked around by the other party members (I'm looking at you, Dragon Quest games). I usually make up some stupid name or just name the character "Hero".

However, my college roommate Brady took a different approach: he would always name the character after himself.

Well, one fine day he was playing Suikoden III. I'm not going to say too much so I don't spoil the game, but at the beginning of the game you are asked to enter your name. However, this doesn't really do anything until much later in the game, when you get to choose a character who will in essence become the main character. He chose his favorite character, who happened to be female. However, the game then renamed that character to the name he entered when he first started, which was of course his own name. He thus ended up naming his favorite female character Brady.

Awk. Ward.

Of course, I never let him live it down. Whenever I saw him playing Suikoden III after that, I would ask how character-Brady was doing, comment how hot she looked, and so on. He usually visits about once a year, and I still make sure to mention that little event.

(When I played the game, I was tempted to choose the same character and enter the name "Brady" just to tease him, but since I had watched him play the game I already knew which character I would choose, so I just entered that character's original name, deftly avoiding the whole renaming issue.)

[bloop]

I name my main RPG heroes in games Isaac or Iris (after my children).

[Vlad!]

I name my main RPG heroes in games Isaac or Iris (after my children).

Which must have gotten awkward when you played Dragon Quest V and then you had to name your children's children.

Also, an addendum to my previous post: I was tempted to send a link to that post to Brady and say "I told the Internet about how you named a girl after yourself", but then I realized that he would retaliate by telling the story of how, when he was playing Suikoden II, I said a character was hot who turned out to be a guy. This happened before the whole girl-name incident, so if you think I was being mean, realize that I was just retaliating for the mockery that he heaped on me for saying that Jowy was hot.

(Naturally, I claim that I was joking when I said that. Naturally, he doesn't believe me.)

[bloop]

Which must have gotten awkward when you played Dragon Quest V and then you had to name your children's children.

I didn't name anyone "Iris" in that game (the hero's name is "Isaac"), but I haven't gotten to that part yet.

[Vlad!]

Among RPG fans, series like Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest are practically legendary, and were so even from their first installment. There is, however, another equally long-lived and venerable series which until recently flew under the radar, especially in the US. I am speaking of the Megami Tensei games.

Megami Tensei (or "Goddess Resurrection"), also known as the Digital Devil Saga, differentiated itself from its contemporaries both by being set in more or less modern day rather than ambiguously medieval times and by being a first-person dungeon crawler, which was more common in the US than in Japan (there was Phantasy Star, which was released later in the same year, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head). In these games, you play as a protagonist, generally a young high school student, who is specially chosen by Mysterious Higher Powers. There is a Great Evil attempting to break loose in Japan, heralded by the loosing of demons on the city, and it's your job to stop it. How do you stop it? By recruiting, convincing, bribing, or otherwise cajoling demons to fight on your side.

The series has several offshoots; there's the Megami Tensei games, the Digital Devil Saga games, the Devil Summoner series, and the more recent Persona installments, the latest of which have received significant critical acclaim on both sides of the Pacific. There's also a bunch of other oddiments, including books, anime, and a random assortment of marginally-related games. I picked up one such game, Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor, and gave it a whirl.

This is actually the most I've played of any of these games; I own Persona 4 but haven't played it yet, and I played a couple of the Shin Megami Tensei games for the SNES back in the day, but first-person dungeon crawlers are not, as a rule, my thing. However, what is unquestionably my thing is strategy RPGs, and that's what Devil Survivor is.

I admit to being a little leery of the whole demon summoning thing at first, but honestly I don't think it's a huge issue. The game draws from a combination of religious traditions; I see elements of Christianity, Hinduism, Norse mythology, and Japanese Shintoism/animism all mixed in together. Though they call them demons, the "Digital Devil Saga" moniker certainly holds since you don't really summon them with an arcane ritual so much as use your COMP (a device which looks suspiciously like a Nintendo DS) to somehow produce them. It doesn't feel much more occult than Pokemon.

As for the game itself, it's pretty fun. The battles tend to be fast-paced, and the game definitely shows its roots with a very detailed and branching storyline where you can make choices which actually impact the outcome of the game. I made the earlier Pokemon comparison quite seriously, because you will spend a surprising amount of the game gathering demons, fusing demons together to create new demons, and trying to figure out which demons to bring into battle. I honestly don't have the patience for this sort of thing that I used to have, but the battles aren't super difficult so even though I don't spend too much time messing around with my team, I've only gotten game over a couple of times.

I also have to mention the totally sweet rock-fueled soundtrack. During the opening movie I found myself headbanging while holding my DS. I admit to having a weakness for J-Rock, but it's fun.

(If you're wondering what the numbers floating by the characters' heads are, they're a game mechanic called the death clock (no relation to this death clock or this Deathklok, though they're both awesome). It tells you how long each character has until he or she dies, assuming you don't intervene. It's kind of an interesting system.)

[bloop]

I've been playing Mario Galaxy 2, mostly helping Isaac with the stars that are frustrating and difficult.  I think I need to experience the more balanced full game, but it is excellent.

Oh, and any E3 thoughts?  I'm thinking Nintendo "won" for the 3DS alone.  In other handheld news, I cannot wait for DQIX.

[Vlad!]

I don't pay a lot of attention to E3. Honestly, a lot of the times, the first I hear of a game is a month to a week before its release when I'm scanning the "coming soon" lists. I've mostly been skeptical of the 3DS, but I was skeptical of the DS for the same reason and it has been my favorite gaming system for several years now.

For the types of games I like, better graphics generally just tends to mean that less care has been spent on the other parts of the game (which are the parts that matter more to me). I think that's one of the reasons I've really enjoyed the DS; its graphics processor is underpowered enough that it's very difficult to make a 3D game that doesn't look like it would have been dated a decade ago, so sprite graphics rather than 3D graphics once again became the standard.

Also, I don't know if the average gamer is aware of this but the console manufacturer may actually reject a game if it does not make use of the console's "advanced features" (i.e. gimmicks). Try developing a Wii game that doesn't use motion control or a DS game that happens all on one screen or even a PS3 game that doesn't have trophies and PSN integration and other nonsense, and you may find out what I mean. So if the 3DS takes off the way the DS did, it would just by existing make it less likely that new games coming out are the type of games that I like.

Nintendo have proven again and again that they are smarter than me when it comes to things people like, and to some extent even when it comes to things that I like. For me to write the 3DS off now would unquestionably be premature, but as of right now, I'm still not feelin' it.

[bloop]

Well, if the advanced feature you are referring to is the 3D itself, one of the most reassuring things I heard watching the conference is that you can turn it off (I thought I would likely enjoy the 3D aspect, but that it would become tiring for extended periods).  Just guessing by screen captures, it looks like a portable Gamecube (or maybe even a Wii), so I'm pretty excited for it.  More software announcements and actually playing the thing may really sell me, though.

Really, though, power (or lack thereof) is not the enemy.  It's about the game itself being a focus during development, along with the newest "gee whiz" features.  While I really like many of the games, I'm not too interested in going back to the NES or SNES era.

Right now, though, it's all about DQIX as far as what I'm anticipating most.

[Vlad!]

I'm tentatively excited about DQIX, but I haven't even gotten around to DQV yet! My DS game queue is so long...and it contains games that I bought like two years ago and are still in their shrink wrap

Nice problem to have, I guess.

[Brenden]

I'm excited for the 3DS, more so since a new Paper Mario game has been announced. PM was one of my favorite N64 games, so I'm on board with another follow-up for a handheld console. The 3DS should make it look pretty amazing.

[Vlad!]

I'm excited for the 3DS, more so since a new Paper Mario game has been announced. PM was one of my favorite N64 games, so I'm on board with another follow-up for a handheld console. The 3DS should make it look pretty amazing.

Yes, those 3D games about 2D protagonists are always funtimes :D

What's interesting is that people are claiming that the 3DS is the first "piracy-proof" system, by which I mean the first system which can't be emulated on a computer. A co-worker and I spent some time brainstorming about how one could write a worthwhile emulator to approximate the 3D experience on a computer, and we came up with a solution we believe is satisfactory. If two random dudes at a software company can come up with a decent design, I'm sure the people who have years if not decades of experience writing emulators will be able to do it no problem.

(That said, the real piracy problem the DS experienced is the use of flashcarts; for every person who plays emulated DS games on his or her computer there is probably five or six who have trivially modified their DS to play games they downloaded and put on an SD card. The DSi was cracked within days of coming out, and I'm sure the 3DS will follow suit. I bet Nintendo would make more money if they fired all the people who tried to make the consoles pirate-proof and instead focused on making awesome games that the average (non-pirate) consumer wants to buy).

[bloop]

Yes, those 3D games about 2D protagonists are always funtimes :D

Yeah, well, I'm looking forward to the Prof. Layton game, as well as PM.  There's something pretty charming about the pop-up book look.

[Brenden]

Yes, those 3D games about 2D protagonists are always funtimes :D

2D characters on a full 3D plane. I loved it in the original and it will probably still look cool on 3DS.

I've never played the Prof. layton games but keep hearing how good they are, I guess I should look into them.

[Vlad!]

Game-wise, the Layton series contains little but the standard puzzle games, but I really love the atmosphere and artwork. I liked Curious Village a bit more than Diabolical Box, I think, but they both had the same sort of charm.

(Maybe hearing the same dialog 200 times over the course of the game is supposed to be part of that charm, but one thing they could do to dramatically improve the game is if they maybe had an icon to indicate that an NPC has something to say that you haven't heard before. The fact that you can miss puzzles means that after almost every event I go through the entire town and talk to everyone, but this gets really really old. Every time it's stupid and I think I'm going to stop doing it, though, I find a new puzzle I would have missed otherwise. That and the pixel-hunting is what really gets bothersome about those games).

[enemy anemone]

I found that there is a free trial version of I Love Katamari for the iphone/ipod touch. I have the latter, so I thought I'd give the game a spin roll! you have to make as large a katamari as you can in 2 minutes. of course, I am a n00b and can't make a very big katamari, so the king is not happy and rebukes me sternly. the king is also creepy-looking and I don't like him. I can't control the rolling/running very well yet. (I have never been good at the 3-d sort of running around games--they make me dizzy.) I would like the game better if it just timed you on how long it takes to roll everything up or make a katamari of a certain size, but hey, it is free and cute and amusing, plus I've been wanting to try a Katamari game but don't have any consoles.

[Vlad!]

It's not your fault for failing, it's our fault for believing in you. (That's what the king says when you fail in the first one).

The PS2 version uses tank-style controls, so it's a little awkward too (push both sticks forward to go forward, one back and one forward to turn, two back to reverse).

I agree that it would be fun if you had a free-range mode so you could just play around without having to beat the clock.

[enemy anemone]

first he said "nice work, nice work", but then..."we are sleepy. just show us your katamari. 20cm1mm...hm... we did our best to fight off sleep and how come you couldn't get this big enough? Prince, are you happy with this size? was that enough? no, right? what do you say? next time, show us a bigger one!" :C

[Vlad!]

Anyone planning on trying Starcraft II?

I just watched a trailer on Ars, but it doesn't show any gameplay, just cinematics. It's not a movie, guys. It's a game.

I'm also a little confused about the timeline. I never actually played through all of Brood War, but it almost looks from the cutscenes they showed and what little I remember of the plot, all the events of Brood War and possibly even the events leading up to Tassadar's destruction of the Overmind are pretty much handwaved away.

Anyway, I don't know if I feel like getting sucked into another Blizzard game at this point.

[bloop]

I would love to, but I fear the system requirements. If they aren't too taxing, then I will definitely jump.

My newest news:  I just acquired an XBox 360.  So, my username for the 360 and the PS3 is iceybloop.

  your avatar, btw.

[Vlad!]

Yeah, I don't think I have a computer that I'm willing to install Windows on which is powerful enough to play SC2.

I've never had an XBox console of any variety. Did you get it to play any specific game, or just to expand your repertoire?

[bloop]

I guess to expand my repertoire, but it didn't really plan on getting one.  It's kind of a long story, but I'll tell you anyway.  

I don't know if you know this, but my brother sometimes reviews games for 1up.com.  They wanted him to review a game, and his system crashed at the same time (the infamous "red ring of death").  MS sent him a new one, and the new one red ringed also.  So, MS sent him yet another one, but it wouldn't get to him before the deadline, so he bought one of the new slim models and sold me the replacement MS sent him for $80 (which I still haven't paid, but he's in no big rush to get it.  I guess I'm technically renting to own an XBox).

The XBox I got red ringed then worked, so I'm a little concerned.  Hopefully,  it's just a false alarm this time.  :-p

[Vlad!]

Interesting. That actually reminds me of a friend's story. He had a Halo party planned, and the night before his 360 red ringed. He ran out and bought a new one. Then he opened up the old one (whose warranty he had long since voided when he modded it) and installed some beefier cooling on it, which caused it to de-red-ring. So now he has two 360s, a modded one and a stock one.

I don't really know of any 360-exclusive games I care about, but I'm not exactly the target audience for Microsoft's consoles anyway.

[bloop]

Yeah, the titles on the 360 that I would think you would like are cross-platform anyway.

[bloop]

Hmm...on second thought, what do you think of Bioware games (BG, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights)?  You might like the Mass Effect games (which are PC games, too, but I'm sure they have pretty stiff sys reqs).

[Vlad!]

KOTOR was pretty OK, actually, but in general I have difficulty getting enthused about first-person RPGs (they all feel like Deus Ex clones, though I've been informed that perhaps I should be saying that Deus Ex was a System Shock clone). I also have a lot of difficulty playing them on the console (the mouse/WASD combination seems like a much more natural fit). I know that both the PS3 and the 360 support keyboards and mice (and I even have a bluetooth keyboard and mouse I sometimes use with my PS3), but it just seems like an awkward fit.

(I never even got into Deus Ex 2 or KOTOR 2. In fact, by the end of KOTOR I was pretty much bored, just because by that point I was basically a god among men and could plow through anyone in my way. I think it's hard to make games like that not get boring, especially if there's no stealth aspect so the only skill progression path is to become more and more powerful. Deus Ex succeeded so well that I played through it four times to get various endings, but that's a pretty special game, and it raised the bar so high that even if its successors and hangers-on managed to meet that bar, they certainly didn't exceed it).

[bloop]

Pretty sure all the aforementioned games are third-person games other than Deus Ex.  I really liked KOTOR a lot (probably my favorite SW game other than maybe TIE Fighter), but I don't mind being able to cut through enemies like butter after a while. I don't like my RPGs very difficult anyway, mostly because when you die it's like "oh, yay, I get to listen to the same 15 minutes of dialog over again".

[Vlad!]

Pretty sure all the aforementioned games are third-person games other than Deus Ex.

That's true. I see little difference between first-person and third-person over-the-shoulder, so I guess they get lumped together in my mind (I think I played through KOTOR in first person mode, though).

I really liked KOTOR a lot (probably my favorite SW game other than maybe TIE Fighter),

Did you play X-Wing: Alliance? Epic.

I don't like my RPGs very difficult anyway, mostly because when you die it's like "oh, yay, I get to listen to the same 15 minutes of dialog over again".

I understand, especially when non-skippable cutscenes are involved. I enjoy games that make me use tactics and strategy rather than just mashing a button, but games (like the old-school RPGs, perhaps most notably the Phantasy Star games) which try to take every opportunity to screw you over just get annoying.

[bloop]

Did you play X-Wing: Alliance? Epic.

Yeah, I did, and it was great. All of those games sort of get lumped together in my mind.