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Aaron
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« on: January 05, 2005, 07:56:49 PM » |
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Nice to see that it didn't matter that I did apologize and had a respectable post at the end of this thread.
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Vlad!
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2005, 08:08:08 PM » |
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Nice to see that it didn't matter that I did apologize and had a respectable post at the end of this thread. Josh is busy gushing about something new that he's experienced. Nothing that you say or do matters in the slightest at this point, unless it is to affirm the greatness of whatever the current powerful, stirring, troubling, breathtaking, etc. etc. thing is that you're supposed to be participating in ^_^ |
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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Aaron
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2005, 08:20:04 PM » |
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Josh is busy gushing about something new that he's experienced. Nothing that you say or do matters in the slightest at this point, unless it is to affirm the greatness of whatever the current powerful, stirring, troubling, breathtaking, etc. etc. thing is that you're supposed to be participating in ^_^ I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not... |
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Josh
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« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2005, 09:38:58 PM » |
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Nice to see that it didn't matter that I did apologize and had a respectable post at the end of this thread. I deleted four post from this thread-- two mine, two yours-- because I actually want to remain at least somewhat faithful to the topic. Of course, my efforts have been thwarted at this point... |
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Josh
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« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2005, 09:45:53 PM » |
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Josh is busy gushing about something new that he's experienced. Nothing that you say or do matters in the slightest at this point, unless it is to affirm the greatness of whatever the current powerful, stirring, troubling, breathtaking, etc. etc. thing is that you're supposed to be participating in ^_^ ... or offer some kind of constructive and/or meaningful criticism of it. Simply saying that it doesn't sound appealing seems like an unproductive post, but heck, I'm even willing to accept that. Derailing a thread just to flame me for my personality and my tastes, though, isn't doing a whole lot for me. |
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Aaron
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« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2005, 11:42:30 PM » |
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I deleted four post from this thread-- two mine, two yours-- because I actually want to remain at least somewhat faithful to the topic. Of course, my efforts have been thwarted at this point... But you did delete a useful post that contributed to the thread. You make it seem like people cannot disagree with you on something. It's turned people away from this place before and if you're not careful, you'll lose more patrons of the phorum. A couple of my comments were uncalled for, but my last post was positive and not rude at all. I said I'd give the book a chance and everything but you probably didn't pay attention to it. now was vlad flaming you or was he pointing out a personality flaw that he's observed? Because if he was being serious and not sarcastic, honestly Josh, as much as I respect you, I agree with it. Whenever someone disagrees with you about something you like alot, you freak out and complain until you come out on top. If that is how it's going to be, what is the point of having the phorum? |
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Vlad!
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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2005, 02:27:28 AM » |
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I split this off because I didn't want to delete it but also didn't want it de-railing the discussion of an ostensibly good book. To clear things up, my post was not meant to be a flame. I was, and I realize this will destroy the completely mature image I have presented up to this point, making fun of Josh. I could probably have picked a better time to do it, but I was amused by Josh's comment in his first post "In fact... and here I go with my usual extremism... it may be the most affecting novel I've ever read." I've read enough "WOW this thing I just read/saw/heard is the best thing EVER and I want all of you to read/watch/listen to it RIGHT NOW" posts (and made enough of them as well) that I understand the feeling behind what Josh is saying. And since Josh tends to be rather effusive in his praise of things that he likes, I noted it in my post. Whenever someone disagrees with you about something you like alot, you freak out and complain until you come out on top This is a standard problem among intelligent people who enjoy the arts, and I think none of us are immune. As a thinking person, Josh (as do most of us here) has reasons why he likes what he does and can defend these reasons. However, appreciation of art in its various forms is different with different people and ultimately subjective. This does not, unfortunately, mean that nobody argues about it, since we do that a lot. I wouldn't call it freaking out and complaining. There are a lot of things that Josh likes and I don't (and vice-versa). It doesn't make me "wrong" when Josh talks about how much this movie or book or album affected him, or how great he thinks it is. Unlike objective truths (such as, say, religion), we can both be "right" when one likes something and the other does not. So it doesn't bother me. We could all stand to lighten up a bit from time to time, and I hope that my comments don't serve as fuel on some flame war. Hopefully this thread can become a useful discussion on objectivity versus subjectivity, the emotional response immediately after experiencing a moving piece of art, or something along that line. I may indulge in (hopefully) good-natured ribbing, but I would rather not see a dedicated "flame Josh" thread.  |
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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bloop
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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2005, 05:14:05 AM » |
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we can both be "right" when one likes something and the other does not. So it doesn't bother me. Well, one person liking something and the other not isn't a debatable point. However, where two are diametrically opposed on whether a piece is good or not, there must be a more supportable position of the two based on what's there. I can say that I like the lastest trashy romance novel more than the collected works of Edgar Allan Poe, but can I support the position that the romance novel is better on the merits? |
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« Last Edit: January 06, 2005, 05:15:44 AM by bloop »
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Enjoy our pub. user/pw: thephorum Follow me on Grooveshark or Spotify. username: iceybloop |
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dgp11776
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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2005, 07:06:47 AM » |
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My overall opinion of this particular case:
Josh read the book. Therefore, his posts had value.
Aaron didn't read the book. Make your own conclusion.
My general opinion of each of these cases is quite simple. If I like something and somebody else doesn't, who cares? I love Tobymac. There, I said it. Just because Aaron rips on him consistently, that isn't going to change. I like (well, liked, since they broke up) Telecast. Murlough likes to rip on them over at CCM, but that isn't going to change my opinion. I like Jim Carrey's "Grinch." I think Vlad!, Bethany, and Josh (and maybe others) hate it, but that isn't going to change my opinion. I can't listen to a whole Bob Dylan song without vomiting. Bloop and many others here love his music, but that won't change my opinion. What's that old saying, opinions are like farts? Everyone has one and they all stink? Sounds about right to me. I just don't understand the benefit of shredding others opinions. I mean, let's be honest. In 100 years, what will be more important - the fact that you liked Radiohead or the things you did in your life that count for eternity. But let's even think immediate. About 150,000 people died over in Asia in the recent tragedy. Does it really matter that I like the sound coming off a round piece of plastic and you don't?
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bloop
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« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2005, 07:28:28 AM » |
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A change is things a particular person enjoys doesn't usually happen, but one can still have an intelligent conversation about the merits of a particular artist or their music, and there is some objectivity there. With Bob Dylan, for instance, I think the historical perspective is pretty useful in showing that, however a person may not like them, he has been a very worthwhile artist. You're right that it isn't the most important thing to discuss, but it is something. Not everything needs to have life and death significance in order to make a good discussion or debate.
I don't tend to view all opinions as stinking. I do view some as more informed than others, on important and unimportant issues both.
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« Last Edit: January 06, 2005, 07:29:59 AM by bloop »
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Enjoy our pub. user/pw: thephorum Follow me on Grooveshark or Spotify. username: iceybloop |
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dgp11776
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« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2005, 07:33:56 AM » |
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You're right that it isn't the most important thing to discuss, but it is something. Not everything needs to have life and death significance in order to make a good discussion or debate.
I completely agree. I think the key to your post is the last four words, "good discussion or debate." That is fine with me, but just shredding someone's opinion for the sake of doing so doesn't fly with me. Personally, and I'm not trying to be doe-eyed here, I like the way Josh debates merits. I like the fact that he simply lays out what he thinks are the strengths (or weaknesses) of the album/book/movie, and kind of leaves it at that. Healthy discussion & debate is good. Discussion & debate to the point of flame wars (which so often happens on any message board) is not. |
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« Last Edit: January 06, 2005, 07:34:47 AM by dgp11776 »
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-TheWanderer-
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« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2005, 09:04:44 AM » |
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The point was that I had said I reserved the book and I was going to read it but that post got deleted with everything else I posted in that thread. It didn't matter that I was going to give it a chance. All I had said was that it might not affect people the way it affected Josh and that's not a bad thing. He had just worded it to sound like he expected everyone to have the same opinion of it as him. I don't think he meant it that way but that's how it came out.
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bloop
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« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2005, 10:37:44 AM » |
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« Last Edit: January 06, 2005, 11:00:10 AM by bloop »
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Enjoy our pub. user/pw: thephorum Follow me on Grooveshark or Spotify. username: iceybloop |
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GusX:
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« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2005, 11:38:23 AM » |
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Boy we all seem happy after Chistmas break .. hehehe
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But of course, I could be wrong... [ But I doubt it. ]
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enemy anemone
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« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2005, 03:54:45 PM » |
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I like Josh's enthusiasm for his latest discoveries and how he elaborates on what he thinks is great about them. many of the movies and music that I haven't been initially interested in but checked out anyway were recommendations from Josh (and others here at the phorum). seems like half the time I like the stuff and half the time I hate it, but it's usually an interesting experience. I never got the feeling the Josh freaks out when I don't share his opinion (but I don't take his stab threats seriously). |
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Vlad!
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« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2005, 08:09:38 PM » |
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Ok, this is now going to be re-named to the "talk about Josh as though he's not here" thread  |
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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-Bethany-
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« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2005, 01:37:28 PM » |
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So...who wants to confront Josh about his BO problem?
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