The Fall of Man: A few reflectons...

[Josh]

We were discussing the first few chapters of Genesis today in my Old Testament class, and a couple of interesting questions were brought up that struck me as being good Phorum discussion fodder:

1. First of all, what about the nature of the serpent? It occurs to me that, to my knowledge, the Bible never specifically claims that the serpent is Satan in disguise; in fact, that idea can't be traced back any farther than the first century. So what exactly is the serpent? Is it Satan? Is it simply the personification of temptation? Or is it just a plain 'ol everyday garden snake?

2. I'd say we can all agree on the fact that, by eating the forbidden fruit, Adam and Eve were, in fact, sinning. But what about their motives? Were their intentions sinful? The Bible seems to indicate that they ate the fruit out of a desire to be more like God... and isn't that a POSITIVE ambition?

[cbluejays]

2. I'd say we can all agree on the fact that, by eating the forbidden fruit, Adam and Eve were, in fact, sinning. But what about their motives? Were their intentions sinful? The Bible seems to indicate that they ate the fruit out of a desire to be more like God... and isn't that a POSITIVE ambition?

Well, God has already explicity told them NOT to eat from the tree.  I don't think their intentions could have been positive.

Let's take, for example, killing someone who doesn't believe in Christianity.  Maybe your desire is to get people who don't believe to believe...isn't that a good desire?  

I'd say it's a good desire gone bad...it may have started out as a good desire, but it become horribly skewed.  When our ambitions are telling us to do something that is in disobedience to what Christ has told us, then they are sinful intentions.    

 

[Vlad!]

God clearly despises the hubris of man...this lesson can be seen throughout the Bible, especially in the Old Testament. Recall the incident of the tower of Babel. God is a self-admitted jealous god and will harbor no equals or challengers; for humanity to aspire to godhood is, in the eyes of the one who's already there, high treason.

I think my gripes with the first few chapters of Genesis have already become a matter of record, though.

[enemy anemone]

wanting to be like God may or may not be a positive ambition. what was it that Lucifer wanted? to be like God, to be in his place. Adam and Eve were in an unfallen state, so I imagine that their desire to be like God was something like "hey, God's holding out on us. let's just get whatever it is ourselves."

when I think of wanting to be more like God, it has to do with wanting to be more loving, being good at the core, perfect, because I see that I am so...not. you know? but Adam and Eve were unfallen--what did they want by wanting to be like God? knowledge...power...that apparently he was keeping from them. their action reflected not just disobedience to God's word but distrust in God's character.

about the serpent, I don't think it was a plain ol' garden snake. for one thing, it talked. and for another, part of God's curse on it was that it would go on its belly. maybe it was something like our garden snakes, but it was different before.

...in thinking about what the serpent would be if it weren't Satan in disguise, I thought "maybe it's his evil twin." (sorry if that is too flippant!)
actually, now that I think of it some more, I remember being taught that Satan corrupted the serpent and the serpent corrupted Eve.  hmm.  

[Rachel]

[Josh]