Sufjan Stevens-- Illinois

[dgp11776]

For the shorter numbers, I'm into "John Wayne Gacy, Jr."  I think he's got good things to say about the nature of human beings in that song, plus it's simply elegant. 
 

I think that's my favorite on the whole album - gave me goosebumps the first time I heard it.

This could be one of the best songs ever written.  The mood is just perfect, and Sufjan nails those falsetto notes at just right time.  The whole thing just creeps me out in a way, but then humbles me at the same time.  The song is a complete masterpiece.

[Tom]

when i put in my Asthmatic Kitty order for "Illinois" i also ordered "A Sun Came" and Half Handed Cloud's "Thy Is A Word, and Feet Need Lamps."

can't wait.

[Escuchame]

I already got my copy but I don't have time to listen right now.

Maybe later.

[Tom]

woohoo! my order has shipped as of yesterday!

maybe i'll get it by next Tuesday!

i have a good feeling (from what you guys have been saying and judging by his past work) that this album will be substantial and significant.

[bdg13disciple]

came in the mail yesterday.

looks pretty.

peace... love... bdg...

[Journey]

I just pre-ordered Illinois and got Michigan along with it.

Ready for my first Sufjan Stevens experience.

[Tom]

i got Illinois yesterday!!!

so far i'm leaning towards thinking it is the best thing he's done yet. very ambitious, yet focused. still digesting it, but i can tell this is going to make a very high debut on my best of 2K5 list.

[Tom]

just in case there are any lurkers left out there to converse with. i was wondering something.

what do you (meaning anyone reading this) think "The Predatory Wasp of the Palisades is Out to Get Us" is about?

it is a beautiful song, one could interpret the lyrics a number of ways. i still haven't decided what i think it is talking about.

discuss.

[Brenden]

Somewhere else someone said they saw the song as remembering something that had happend, I agree with that, the rest I haven't figured out.

[murlough23]

what do you (meaning anyone reading this) think "The Predatory Wasp of the Palisades is Out to Get Us" is about?

That is a weird song, but one of my favorites. As with any song on either of Sufjan's state albums so far, it probably requires a little research to really get at the meaning. So I can only give a vague impression because I haven't done my homework on the album yet. I was really weirded out at first by his talk of kissing a guy and saying "I love him each day". However, I remembered that Sufjan's parents came from more of a Middle Eastern/Muslim culture, and I believe some people use the kiss as a greeting in that culture, so it could refer to that instead of a homosexual relationship or anything like that. Anyway, I think it's about a childhood friend who died or was seriously injured by killer bees or something. Kind of reminds me of the movie My Girl.

NP: "Breakdown", Mae

[Tom]

I was really weirded out at first by his talk of kissing a guy and saying "I love him each day". However, I remembered that Sufjan's parents came from more of a Middle Eastern/Muslim culture, and I believe some people use the kiss as a greeting in that culture, so it could refer to that instead of a homosexual relationship or anything like that.

good insight Murlough. that actually makes a lot of sense. and the refrain "we were in love" may in fact refer to them sharing the emotions of first loves with each other, rather than being in love WITH each other.

but as a side note, what if the song really is about same-sex love? would that change your / our opinions of it? and why or why not?

my thoughts are that the lyrics don't condone or condemn such a thing. it reads to me more like a statement of a past fact. and given the large number of references to "super sexy women" in his other songs, i'm inclined to doubt that a romantic same-sex connotation is implied. however, you've got to admit that the lyrics are intentionally pregnant with possible meanings.

that said, i still like the song. but i'd be interested in hearing what Sufjan has to say about the song's meaning.

[Brenden]

thinking outrageously i write in cursive
i hide in my bed with the lights on the floor
wearing three layers of coats and leg warmers
i see my own breath on the face of the door

oh i am not quite sleeping
oh i am fast in bed
there on the wall in the bedroom creeping
i see a wasp with her wings outstretched

north of sylvanna we swim in the palisades
i come out wearing my brothers red hat
there on his shoulder my friend is bit seven times
he runs washing his face in his hands

oh how i meant to tease him
oh how i meant no harm
touching his back with my hand i kiss him
i see the wasp on the length of my arm

[over chanting i can't quite decipher]
we were in love, we were in love
palisades palisades palisades
i can wait i can wait

i can't explain the state that i'm in
the state of my heart, he was my best friend
into the car, from the backseat
oh admiration in falling asleep
all of my powers, day after day
i can tell you, we swaggered and swayed
deep in the tower, the prairies below
i can tell you, the telling gets old
terrible sting and terrible storm
i can tell you the day we were born
my friend is gone, he ran away
i can tell you, i love him each day
though we have sparred, wrestled and raged
i can tell you i love him each day
terrible sting and terrible storm
i can tell you..

How do we know this isn't from a female perspective anyway? It could work that way.

[Brenden]

Also, someone has deciphered the lyrics to They Are Night Zombies.

I-L-L-I-N-O-I-S! Ring the bell and call or write us
I-L-L-I-N-O-I-S! Can you call the Captain Clitus?
Logan, Grant, and Ronald Reagan
In the grave with Xylophagan
Do you know the ghost community?
Sound the horn, address the city

(Who will save it? Dedicate it?
Who will praise it? Commemorate it for you?)

We are awaken with the ax
Night of the Living Dead at last
They have begun to shake the dirt
Wiping their shoulders from the earth
I know, I know the nations past
I know, I know they rust at last
They tremble with the nervous thought
Of having been, at last, forgot

I-L-L-I-N-O-I-S! Ring the bell and call or write us
I-L-L-I-N-O-I-S! Can you call the Captain Clitus?
B-U-D-A! Caledonia! S-E-C-O-R! Magnolia!
B-I-R-D-S! And Kankakee! Evansville and Parker City

Speaking their names, they shake the flag
Wking the earth, it lifts and lags
We see a thousand rooms to rest
Helping us taste the bite of death
I know, I know my time has passed
I'm not so young, I'm not so fast
I tremble with the nervous thought
Of having been, at last, forgot

I-L-L-I-N-O-I-S! Ring the bell and call or write us
I-L-L-I-N-O-I-S! Can you call the Captain Clitus?
Comer and Potato Peelers! G-R-E-E-N ridge! Reeders
M-C-V-E-Y! And Horace! E-N-O-S! Start the chorus

Corn and Farms and Tombs in Lemmon
Sailor Springs and all things feminine
Centerville and Old Metropolis
Shawneetownn, you trade and topple us
I-L-L-I-N-O-I-S! Hold your tongue and don't divide us
I-L-L-I-N-O-I-S! Land of God, you hold and guide us

[murlough23]

good insight Murlough. that actually makes a lot of sense. and the refrain "we were in love" may in fact refer to them sharing the emotions of first loves with each other, rather than being in love WITH each other.

I only assumed they were in love with each other because he refers to kissing the guy, possibly as a joke. But then, kids do funny things when they're little and they don't necessarily have sexual connotations.

but as a side note, what if the song really is about same-sex love? would that change your / our opinions of it? and why or why not?

Only in the sense that it would surprise me to hear it coming from an artist who is a Christian. Personally, my mind isn't really made up on the homosexuality issue, so I wouldn't condemn the song if it did turn out to be about that. It would just be surprising to hear an artist who is openly Christian (not a CCM artist, but he's made his faith pretty clear on past albums and he does allude to it on this one) come out endorsing it.

my thoughts are that the lyrics don't condone or condemn such a thing. it reads to me more like a statement of a past fact.

Sure, in much the same way that "John Wayne Gacy, Jr." (which interestingly also refers to homosexual acts that the guy committed with his victims) doesn't condone rape or murder. It's a statement of fact.

and given the large number of references to "super sexy women" in his other songs, i'm inclined to doubt that a romantic same-sex connotation is implied.

The tricky thing about more creative songwriters is that they sometimes write from finctional perspectives, which can include opposite-sex perspectives. For some reason, it's easier for me to catch on to the intended perspective with a song like "Memories" by Eisley or "Homecoming" by Vienna Teng, both of which are songs that are sung by women, but speak from a male perspective. Maybe it's just a hang-up that I have because a lot of men in our culture are homophobic, moreso than women - it seems more natural to hear a woman taking on a man's perspective and singing about being in love with a woman, than it is to hear a man singing from a woman's perspective about being in love with a man.

however, you've got to admit that the lyrics are intentionally pregnant with possible meanings.

Unless it is about a homosexual couple, in which pregnancy is not a risk.  

[oneafroboy]

I listened to this record on Friday (on very nice speakers I might add, though not my own). And I have listened to it quite a bit since.

Initial impressions:

Sufjan has definitely grown and matured as a songrwriter.

His singing has improved. One of his faults has tended to be his vocal work (his own). Thankfully, he knew he had a limit, so he never inappropriately used his voice. He always used backup singers to make up for his limited abilities, and his music is certinaly the better for it. But, his vocal work is much stronger on this album. His technique has definitely improved.

The most obvious area of growth is his ability to arrange. If nothing else, the arrangements on Illinoise are much better than on Michigan. They are stronger, more interesting, and more complex. Writing a good counter-melody is a hard thing to do. He did a fine job on Michigan, but he has definitely honed his craft on this project.

I love John Wayn Gacy, Jr. and C. P. Day. Beautiful and heartbreaking. The piano in the first track is beautiful. Track three is great and I really like Chicago. I like most of the album, but these are highlights for me. In fact there are more, but I don't have the actual CD yet (my friend received his copy in the mail already). Working on that....

74 minutes is a long time. I wonder if the concept works as well as it did on Michigan. By that I mean, I definitely feel like Michigan is about...Michigan. I don't know if he accomplished the concept here on Illinois as well as he did on Michigan. But I also realize that Michigan is his home state, and I think that that is contributing factor. It may turn out that the rest of the states, especially the ones that he has not lived in, will be more in the vein of Illinois.

But it's definitely Sufjan. He has a quickly recognizable style/sound. Which is fine. He was actually able to expand upon that style and sound on this record. He does something different (gasp! maybe some other bands whose name begins with C would do better doing the same). He diversifies. And that's cool. Illinoise does not sound like Michigan. And that makes me happy.

I know you guys are talking about the Preadatory Wasp song with kissing in it. (I think it's written from the point of view of a someone else, probably a girl, especially since he's a fiction writer, and I just read an interview where he said that he wrote a story from the point of view of a Girl Scout, so...) Anyone else notice the other mentions of kissing in the album? It just struck me. I wonder if it has any significance (intended or not, and I do mean thematically).

Oh, and I think that he expresses his faith well here. From practical confession on John Wayne, to redemption in Chicago, to grappling with His sovereignty in C. P. D.--props to Sufjan for maturely expressing his faith in his art.

Overall, this is certainly one of the best releases of the year and so far, of his career.

 

[Brenden]

On John Wayne Gacy there's an obvious reason for mentioning kissing (the guy raped and killed people), on C.P.D. I think it's more just a part of the story.

[Josh]

My copy should arrive today or tomorrow... until then, your comments are very encouraging, afro!

His singing has improved. One of his faults has tended to be his vocal work (his own). Thankfully, he knew he had a limit, so he never inappropriately used his voice. He always used backup singers to make up for his limited abilities, and his music is certinaly the better for it. But, his vocal work is much stronger on this album. His technique has definitely improved.

This is especially good news. I've always thought that Sufjan was a weak singer, and was hoping that he'd grow in that area.

The most obvious area of growth is his ability to arrange. If nothing else, the arrangements on Illinoise are much better than on Michigan. They are stronger, more interesting, and more complex. Writing a good counter-melody is a hard thing to do. He did a fine job on Michigan, but he has definitely honed his craft on this project.

I've always thought arranging was one of his greatest strengths, actually, but hey, improvement is always good.

[murlough23]

Last night, I started doing a little research into some of the places and people mentioned on this album. It turns out that "Come On! Feel the Illinoise!", which is apparently about the World Columbian Exposition of 1893, refers to a makeshift white city that was built just for the fair. A little further research turned up information on one H. H. Holmes, possibly the first famous serial killer in America, who dispatched his victims by luring them into a maze of white rooms set up as a carnival attraction. This provides an interesting thematic link to "John Wayne Gacy, Jr.", which immediately follows this track.

[Josh]

Jason Moorehead, who first introduced me to Sufjan Stevens' music with his review of Michigan, has just posted his thoughts on Illinois.

[Brenden]

It also turns out that Decatur chronicles actual events, someone talked about it on songmeanings.net.

[Josh]

Heard this yesterday.

Delightful. Completely, thoroughly delightful. Given time, I think I'll grow to like this one even better than Michigan.

Some random, stream-of-thought observations:

1. Agreed with afro's comment that, vocally, this album is a step up from Michigan, not only in terms of better vocal arrangements, but also in terms of growth as a vocalist on the part of Sufjan himself.

2. Agreed with those who've noticed Sufjan's affinity for strings and flutes on this one, but what I'm impressed with is his excellent use of trumpet, which gives many of these songs a lively dose of funk.

3. Agreed that some of the shorter musical pieces-- the six seconds of applause and woohooing, etc.-- are overkill, but heck, if you're not paying attention to where the songs begin and end, it really doesn't matter.

4. The first track is among the most beautiful that Sufjan has recorded; "Illinoise" and "Chicago" are among the most exhilirating; and "John Wayne Gacy Jr" is among the most moving. The first time I heard that song it gave me chills.

5. I love how he writes about his faith in such a natural way, without ever sounding like he's doing it out of obligation.

6. The second song on the album isn't doing much for me now. It doesn't transition well from the first song, it kills the album's momentum, and it's really not that interesting in the first place.

More later... but for now, yeah, this one's a shoo-in for this year's Top 5.

[murlough23]

Reviewage.

[Brenden]

Great review, interesting what you said about The Seer's Tower, as that's become one of my favorite tracks from the album.

I would have to say that I consider the intro to They Are Night Zombies to be one of the coolest I've ever heard.

[dgp11776]

Reviewage.

Great job, David.  I felt the same way as you did about this album before it releases.  I mean, how in the world do you live up to expectations built by Michigan?  To exceed them was most welcome.  I can't say enough good things about this album.  The only reason I don't have this as #1 for the year is just because I feel that the new Mars ILL disc deserves that slot.  But, man, it's getting harder and harder not to flip them.

[starhawk]

Great reviews, good insight.

I got my copy in the mail a few days ago.  After having listened through it a couple times now, to be completely honest, I find myself a bit dissapointed.  I just can't seem to enjoy this as much as his previous work- the songs don't seem to 'stick' to me as much.  I still enjoy it thoroughly- love the Disneyland big band feel- but I don't think I'm as impressed with his song writing on Illinois as on his past work.  I don't think there's anything here I find as moving as, say, "Seven Swans" or "In The Devil's Territory".   But who knows, maybe I just need to give it a few more spins.

I'm much, much more thrilled by the other release from Asthmatic Kitty that I recieved in the mail the same day- The Castanets- Cathedral.  

[oneafroboy]

If more stripped down folkish stuff "moves" you then it doesn't suprise me that you prefer Seven Swans over Illinois.

However, if more orchestrated stuff were to get your blood pumping or your heart melting or your foot tapping or whatever, then I think Illinois is a better bet.

That's how I explain that reaction.

[starhawk]

Good music is what "moves" me.  I just don't think Illinois is as impressive as I hoped it would be.

[oneafroboy]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be critical of your musical tastes. However, I think most people if not everyone has a soft spot for something. Certain things just really resonate. A lot of times this has to do with the style of music.

I think his songwriting is very solid on Illinois. I also think his songwriting on Seven Swans is solid as well, but I think it's more bare on SS than on Ill. John Wayne Gacy, Jr. is one of the best songs he's ever crafted.

Just comparing notes... I actually don't like "In the Devil's Territory" as much as I like All the Trees, Dress, A Good Man, and The Transfiguration. I do like "Seven Swans," but after all the others.

But you know, in the end I actually think Seven Swans may still be my favorite. I still find Illinois impressive (some of his best work is on it, and the arrangements are great), but I think the songs on Seven Swans resonate with me much more on a personal level.  

[Josh]

Illinoise tour dates!

[Escuchame]

By the way, guys, the album is titled Illinois, not Come On Feel the Illinoise or Illinoise.  Stop it.

Sorry for sounding like a nagging older sister.

(On another note... Franz Ferdinand doing a collabo with Kanye... Mmmmhhh...)

[murlough23]

By the way, guys, the album is titled Illinois, not Come On Feel the Illinoise or Illinoise.  Stop it.

Sorry for sounding like a nagging older sister.

(On another note... Franz Ferdinand doing a collabo with Kanye... Mmmmhhh...)

Well, the spine says Illinois, but the cover says Come on! Feel the Illinoise!. Similar thing with Michigan, which has the full title Greetings from Michigan: The Greak Lake State. AMG and others show the long title for Michigan, but the short title for Illinois.

Anyway, given the option of two names, I'll use the longer one as the formal title and the shorter one to refer to it conversationally.

NP: "Here I Am to Worship", Plus One

[starhawk]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be critical of your musical tastes. However, I think most people if not everyone has a soft spot for something. Certain things just really resonate. A lot of times this has to do with the style of music.

I think his songwriting is very solid on Illinois. I also think his songwriting on Seven Swans is solid as well, but I think it's more bare on SS than on Ill. John Wayne Gacy, Jr. is one of the best songs he's ever crafted.

Just comparing notes... I actually don't like "In the Devil's Territory" as much as I like All the Trees, Dress, A Good Man, and The Transfiguration. I do like "Seven Swans," but after all the others.

But you know, in the end I actually think Seven Swans may still be my favorite. I still find Illinois impressive (some of his best work is on it, and the arrangements are great), but I think the songs on Seven Swans resonate with me much more on a personal level.

Reasonable points.
Sorry I jumped at you.

I'm enjoying the disc a whole lot now actually...  I dunno why I felt so down about it at first.  It's a great record.

 

[oneafroboy]

No hard feelings. Glad you're liking the disc more.    

[murlough23]

Just for fun, I'm going to list my favorite Sufjan songs thus far.

1) The Tallest Man, the Broadest Shoulders
2) They Also Mourn Who Do Not Wear Black (For the Homeless in Muskegon)
3) Holland
4) The Predatory Wasp of the Palisades Is Out to Get Us!
5) Detroit, Lift Up Your Weary Head! (Rebuild, Restore, Reconsider!)
6) They Are Night Zombies!! They Are Our Neighbors!! They Have Come Back from the Dead!! Ahhhhh!
7) Come On! Feel the Illinoise!
8) Say Yes! To Michigan!
9) The Dress Looks Nice on You
10) Seven Swans
11) Prairie Fire that Wanders About
12) A Good Man Is Hard to Find
13) The Man of Metropolis Steals Our Hearts
14) He Woke Me Up Again
15) All Good Nayayers, Speak Up! Or Forever Hold Your Peace!

[Tom]

ok, i'm going to go on record and say that "Illinois" has entered my all time favorite albums list. it isn't in my top 10, but i'm leaning toward putting it in my top 25.

this album gets better with every listen. for those of you still sitting on the fence, you should go check this album out. it is hard to not admire the artistry and musicianship at work in "Illinois."

gee, i'm going to be bummed out when full length albums are replaced by $.99 single downloads...

[murlough23]

gee, i'm going to be bummed out when full length albums are replaced by $.99 single downloads...

Seriously! Then this album would cost $21.78.

[Brenden]

I'm a bit bored, so I'll list my favorite Sufjan songs that I've heard.

1. They are Night Zombies
2. The Dress Looks Nice on You
3. Holland
4. The Seer's Tower
5. Jacksonville
6. The Transfiguration
7. Romulus
8. Chicago
9. All Good Naysayers, Speak Up! Or Forever Hold Your Peace
10. The Man of Metropolis Steals our Hearts

[Josh]

Sufjan heads to Arkansas!

Well, for one song, anyway...

[murlough23]

Dang it! Sufjan is going to be in L.A. on a Saturday night while I'm away at a church retreat! NOTFAIRNOTFAIRNOTFAIR!!!

NP: "Anything", Mae

[Josh]

Not surprisingly, Pitchfork loves it.