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Author Topic: Narnia and pagan mythology  (Read 439 times)
Josh
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« on: April 11, 2005, 08:57:08 PM »

While browsing the archives of Peter Chattaway's blog, "FilmChat," I came across this interesting piece on the pagan mythology of C.S. Lewis' Narnia books, an idea that, I must confess, had never crossed my mind. What say you pholks?
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PaulDA
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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2005, 07:01:48 AM »

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While browsing the archives of Peter Chattaway's blog, "FilmChat," I came across this interesting piece on the pagan mythology of C.S. Lewis' Narnia books, an idea that, I must confess, had never crossed my mind. What say you pholks?
I think I asked this in another thread, but I forget where it is! laugh
Who is this Peter Chattaway???
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2005, 07:16:22 AM »

Interesting, I hadn't really thought about it.
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Josh
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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2005, 09:23:49 AM »

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I think I asked this in another thread, but I forget where it is! laugh
Who is this Peter Chattaway???
One of the most intelligent and hard-working Christian film critics out there. His blog, FilmChat, is one of my daily Web haunts. It's not to be missed.
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Vlad!
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2005, 12:27:20 PM »

Back on topic for a sec (a new experience for me), one has to admit that compared to most of the pagan and eastern religions, Christianity has very little of the supernatural in it. This is, of course, to be expected: one doesn't run into satyrs and dryads and nymphs on a regular basis in the 'real' world, and Christianity is focused on reality. But when entering a land of fantasy and wonder, that doesn't leave the purely Christian allegorist a whole lot to draw on. By including pagan mythology (which England has a lot more of than the North American countries), he can create a much richer tableau of fantasy without (as others such as Lovecraft did) going out of his way to invent new creatures to populate it with.
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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2005, 10:18:41 PM »

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Christianity has very little of the supernatural in it.
Besides that whole God character, anyway. Although, he does seem rather important to Christian belief.
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2005, 10:20:16 PM »

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Besides that whole God character, anyway. Although, he does seem rather important to Christian belief.
Note the differences between the words 'little' and 'none' , and also note the (unquoted) qualifying statement "compared to pagan and eastern religions."  
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2005, 10:37:07 PM »

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Note the differences between the words 'little' and 'none' , and also note the (unquoted) qualifying statement "compared to pagan and eastern religions."
I know what you meant, but I still don't think that there's really all the much less. I mean, there are less characters in Christianity, but they don't seem any less supernatural to me. Heck, we could argue that a triune God is actually more supernatural then a small pile of gods.
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2005, 11:41:11 PM »

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I know what you meant, but I still don't think that there's really all the much less. I mean, there are less characters in Christianity, but they don't seem any less supernatural to me. Heck, we could argue that a triune God is actually more supernatural then a small pile of gods.
But consider most pagan mythology--their gods directly interact with the planet and the people on a daily basis. There are spirits in the trees, in the water, in the air, and in the mountains. A pagan (not necessarily a neo-pagan but your average superstitious country person from a few centuries ago certainly) might not be too surprised if while walking through a forest he entered a clearing and found a faun playing a flute and dancing or a group of dryads doing whatever it is that dryads do (I'm assuming they play pinochle).
The Greeks thought that lightning was caused by Zeus and the sun moved thanks to Apollo. The Norse attributed earthquakes to Loki and thunder to Thor. Paganism as a religion is full of mystery and supernatural wonder as the gods and goddesses preside over the moral realms and go about their own business beyond the ken of man.
Consider also Hinduism, which honors thousands of gods both major and minor. Each family might have its own set of gods that theoretically watch out for it in return for prayers, offerings, and devotion. Reincarnated souls can become divine, just as they can become common. Everything you see around you that lives has a soul just like yours and is worthy of honor.
Compared to these things, a created universe that pretty much runs itself seems kind of boring. Not to say that there's anything wrong with the way things are--I wouldn't trade our God for the all-too-human Greek gods, the Norse pantheon who lived under the shadow of their own demise, or the death-obsessed Egyptian deities. But when crafting a world of wonder and fantasy where magic seems to seep from the seams of the earth and everything seems unreal and at the same time more real than reality, throwing in some magical beasts and allusions to pagan mythology seems perfectly natural and helps set the tone quite well.
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
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danny316
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« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2005, 12:15:31 AM »

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But consider most pagan mythology--their gods directly interact with the planet and the people on a daily basis.
Aren't prayer and worship ways that God and man can interact on a daily basis?
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There are spirits in the trees, in the water, in the air, and in the mountains. A pagan (not necessarily a neo-pagan but your average superstitious country person from a few centuries ago certainly) might not be too surprised if while walking through a forest he entered a clearing and found a faun playing a flute and dancing or a group of dryads doing whatever it is that dryads do (I'm assuming they play pinochle).
I may be marginally insane for this, but that wouldn't surprise me much either. I'd probably spend more time trying to figure out what I was seeing than actually being shocked.
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The Greeks thought that lightning was caused by Zeus and the sun moved thanks to Apollo. The Norse attributed earthquakes to Loki and thunder to Thor. Paganism as a religion is full of mystery and supernatural wonder as the gods and goddesses preside over the moral realms and go about their own business beyond the ken of man.
Many Christians also think God paints the sunset each night, or that he designs each snowflake seperately, and it's a rather common belief that God creates each person in the womb. There are other things that are explained that we often credit to God as well. It's not unusual to refer to natural disasters as "acts of God" either. I'm not quite sure what the difference is here, except maybe that we accept that more things are explainable by science.
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Consider also Hinduism, which honors thousands of gods both major and minor. Each family might have its own set of gods that theoretically watch out for it in return for prayers, offerings, and devotion. Reincarnated souls can become divine, just as they can become common. Everything you see around you that lives has a soul just like yours and is worthy of honor.
Arguably, intercession of the saints in catholicism or the "dance" celebrated by orthodox churched could qualify as being similar here. There are differences, but I don't think that they make Christianity less involved with the supernatural.
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Compared to these things, a created universe that pretty much runs itself seems kind of boring.
I like to think God is slightly more involved than that, but I could be wrong. I think it is quite fascinating though how much there is to discover about a universe that was created by a single supreme being.
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Not to say that there's anything wrong with the way things are--I wouldn't trade our God for the all-too-human Greek gods, the Norse pantheon who lived under the shadow of their own demise, or the death-obsessed Egyptian deities.
Although it could be a fun trip for a day or two, I'd agree that I wouldn't want to live there.
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But when crafting a world of wonder and fantasy where magic seems to seep from the seams of the earth and everything seems unreal and at the same time more real than reality, throwing in some magical beasts and allusions to pagan mythology seems perfectly natural and helps set the tone quite well.
I suppose, but it's easy enough to just to make stuff up. I don't see how that changes how much of the supernatural is in Christianity as compared to other religions.
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« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2005, 12:39:14 AM »

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Many Christians also think God paints the sunset each night, or that he designs each snowflake seperately, and it's a rather common belief that God creates each person in the womb. There are other things that are explained that we often credit to God as well. It's not unusual to refer to natural disasters as "acts of God" either. I'm not quite sure what the difference is here, except maybe that we accept that more things are explainable by science.

One of the reasons our religion is less supernatural than paganism is because God chooses to rely mainly on the physical systems that he has set up. None of the things you have mentioned are examples of direct supernatural intervention, which is what we're talking about here.

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Arguably, intercession of the saints in catholicism or the "dance" celebrated by orthodox churched could qualify as being similar here. There are differences, but I don't think that they make Christianity less involved with the supernatural.

Time for one of my it's-way-too-late analogies: the Catholic idea of intercession (which, by the way, is fairly unbiblical and is not really representative of supernaturalism in Christian theology anyway) is sort of like writing a letter to your congressman. Sure it might get things done, and yes he might even care about you. But he's there for his entire constituency. The Hindu family gods are more like pets with super powers (yay, it's the crappy analogy). They're very personal, very supernatural, and seem more 'weird'.

I don't think you've provided much in the way of argument. I guess part of the problem is that it's hard to quantify what is 'more' supernatural. So what I would like to know is, if you removed all the pagan elements from the Narnia books, what purely Christian elements would you put in their place such that it retains the same spirit of the supernatural and fantastic? Personally, I would find it to be quite difficult.
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
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danny316
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« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2005, 11:26:52 PM »

Nevermind, I think I just misunderstood how you were using the word "direct".
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