The 'American Idol' thread

[murlough23]

[Usadingo]

[eatahouse]

I happy that Carrie won. She is so genuinely humble and nice.
She did say, though, that it really didn't matter who won tonight, that both she and Bo have long acreers ahead of them.
Good for her! You have to be positive in show business and developing an ego, even a small one, is vital. You have to gorge ahead even at times when things look glum.

That seems SOOO opposite from the other one. I can't exactly remember her name, but last AI (or was it two times ago?), you got pissed at someone who said the same thing, that all of the final five or whatever would have amazing careers. You said it's the audience who gets to decide that.

Sorry, IMO sounds pretty hypocritical.

[bloop]

Vocals aren't everything, look at Bob Dylan.

A modern day Bob Dylan would never make it to Hollywood on American Idol.  To me, that is rather telling of a problem, or a limitation I should say, with the show.

I was hoping Bo would win.  Yes, I would rather a Scott Stapp wannabe make it than a Faith Hill one.  Hopefully, there is really more to them.

[murlough23]

I was hoping Bo would win. Yes, I would rather a Scott Stapp wannabe make it than a Faith Hill one. Hopefully, there is really more to them.

How can anybody be anything other than a wannabe on a show where they have to sing other people's material?

NP: "The Predatory Wasp of the Palisades Is Out to Get Us!", Sufjan Stevens

[PaulDA]

How can anybody be anything other than a wannabe on a show where they have to sing other people's material?
 

You have this thing with wanting everyone to write new songs.
Many people like to hear familiar songs.
Also, great vocalists like Frank Sinatra and Dionne Warwick had great writers writing songs for them and they also sang standards that had been recorded before, sometimes many times.
What is this modern obsession with wanting every singer to write their own songs and play an intrument?

[bloop]

How can anybody be anything other than a wannabe on a show where they have to sing other people's material?

Simple.  If they are using covers simply as a pathway to have the opportunity to get their own compositions heard, then that's how.  I have nothing against covers, in themselves.  Some of the greatest artists and bands in the 60s, Bob Dylan included, used covers early on in their careers.  At the very least, doing a cover is at least honest, as opposed to merely ripping-off elements of a song.

[murlough23]

You have this thing with wanting everyone to write new songs.

Not everyone. I like some cover versions. I just don't think it should be the primary thing making a person famous. Singing songs other people have written specifically for you is a different matter - in many cases those end up being very generic songs, but I've seen singers who work very well with particular songwriters who know how to write to their strengths and their personalities.

Many people like to hear familiar songs.

Many people are shallow blind sheep. I don't give a rat's ass what many people like; that doesn't make it good art.

Also, great vocalists like Frank Sinatra and Dionne Warwick had great writers writing songs for them and they also sang standards that had been recorded before, sometimes many times.

See my above comment about songs being written for them. That's OK in my book. You also have to consider that Sinatra was doing this back in the day when we hadn't necessarily been beaten over the head with the same thing 50,000 times. When something's initially done, it's not a cliche yet. I don't know anything about Warwick so I can't say anything in that case.

What is this modern obsession with wanting every singer to write their own songs and play an intrument?

I wasn't aware that it was modern. All I know is that when I compare artists who write their own stuff to artists who don't, I get a lot more of a sense of personality and uniqueness from a lot of the ones who do. I absolutely can't stand cloning, and an artist who is only known for covers stands a much greater chance of sounding like a clone to my ears, because simply by defenition, they are only copying, not creating. I'll give you a little leeway in cases where the cover songs are being drastically reimagined, but artists who do this and actually pull it off are few and far between.

Simple. If they are using covers simply as a pathway to have the opportunity to get their own compositions heard, then that's how. I have nothing against covers, in themselves. Some of the greatest artists and bands in the 60s, Bob Dylan included, used covers early on in their careers. At the very least, doing a cover is at least honest, as opposed to merely ripping-off elements of a song.

I have nothing against covers, either - it's more of a proportion thing. I don't think anyone should be massively popular for doing mostly covers of established songs, because so much less of the creative work there is something they can take credit for. I can see throwing a few in here and there, but I'm much more interested in what original material an artist has to bring to the table. Covers are generally a novelty item for me.

[TheWandererisinPennsylvania]

I disagree to an extent. She was a bit shakey in the beginning but Carrie was phenomenal on her last song.
Bo is good, but to me he has a one dimensional voice.
But I guess rockers basically sound like that.

Paul, she didn't nail the last song.  Perhaps it is because I studied voice for a long time.  I can hear just the slightest mishaps that many people can't detect.  She definitely wavered and stumbled on a couple of phrases.  


If you think Bo has a one dimensional voice, then you obviously didn't watch the same show I did.  He did 2 completely different styles: upbeat rock and a slow ballad.  They demanded totally different vocal qualities and strengths and he was able to pull them off perfectly.  


It's ok.  He's going to be more successful anyway.  

[PaulDA]

I disagree to an extent. She was a bit shakey in the beginning but Carrie was phenomenal on her last song.
Bo is good, but to me he has a one dimensional voice.
But I guess rockers basically sound like that.

Paul, she didn't nail the last song.  Perhaps it is because I studied voice for a long time.  I can hear just the slightest mishaps that many people can't detect.  She definitely wavered and stumbled on a couple of phrases.  


If you think Bo has a one dimensional voice, then you obviously didn't watch the same show I did.  He did 2 completely different styles: upbeat rock and a slow ballad.  They demanded totally different vocal qualities and strengths and he was able to pull them off perfectly.  


It's ok.  He's going to be more successful anyway.

......A person who should know, Simon, said weeks ago that Carrie will sell more records than any other AI contestant.
.....Bo may have sang rock songs and ballads but his voice is basically the same.
The reason his voice soesn't 'waver and stumble' is because he doesn't go for any hard notes.
.....If either Carrie or Vonzell had sang an a cappella song the same night Bo sang his, Bo would have been blown out of the water. He's just lucky they didn't.
.....And, anyway, Vonzell clearly sang the best Wednesday night in her song with Billy Preston. No contest.

[bloop]

I have nothing against covers, either - it's more of a proportion thing. I don't think anyone should be massively popular for doing mostly covers of established songs, because so much less of the creative work there is something they can take credit for. I can see throwing a few in here and there, but I'm much more interested in what original material an artist has to bring to the table. Covers are generally a novelty item for me.

I understand what you're saying, but I've slowly become of the mind where as long as those artists that are meaningful, artful, and expressive remain at least commercially viable, I don't care what the most popular is.

I guess what I'm saying is that the format of a show like American Idol would tend to attract a wannabe artist because all they do is standards, but that's not a guarantee that any given individual contestant would like to be in that mode forever.  We know nothing of these people's songwriting and compositional abilities, good or bad, from the show.

[murlough23]

I understand what you're saying, but I've slowly become of the mind where as long as those artists that are meaningful, artful, and expressive remain at least commercially viable, I don't care what the most popular is.

I guess I missed the part where most of them actually were commercially viable. I know some of my favorites definitely aren't, and they definitely deserve to be.

I guess what I'm saying is that the format of a show like American Idol would tend to attract a wannabe artist because all they do is standards, but that's not a guarantee that any given individual contestant would like to be in that mode forever.  We know nothing of these people's songwriting and compositional abilities, good or bad, from the show.

Sure, it's possible. As I've mentioned before, I think Kelly Clarkson has started to transform, and there are other AI alums who have at least co-written on their CD's. (The only one I've actually heard all the way through is RJ Helton's, which sucked, but at least he co-wrote some of it, as generic as most of it was.) The problem is that the format of the show doesn't really encourage this. If you can become popular on the basis of your looks and voice, without having to do anything creative (some can do creative things with their voices, no doubt, but clearly what makes them popular is not their creativity in that area, but whether the sound of their voices and their moves and looks appeal to people), then why would most AI contestants bother to ever strive for anything beyond that? Some will because they actually are internally driven to be artists. But most won't. Given the choice, the average human will take the path of least resistance to attain his/her goal.

[bloop]

I guess I missed the part where most of them actually were commercially viable. I know some of my favorites definitely aren't, and they definitely deserve to be.

My favorites are at least able to support themselves with their music, so I can't say I share the same problem.  If that changes, I'll be sure to make a note of it.

Your second paragraph is just a verbose rewording of what I already said, so I can't say I disagree.  The point was that an American Idol can possibly come into their own.

[PaulDA]

I guess I missed the part where most of them actually were commercially viable. I know some of my favorites definitely aren't, and they definitely deserve to be.
 

You actually have favorites from American idol??? :zoinks:    :!:  

[murlough23]

I guess I missed the part where most of them actually were commercially viable. I know some of my favorites definitely aren't, and they definitely deserve to be.
 

You actually have favorites from American idol??? :zoinks:    :!:

Yes. William Hung is HOTTT.

No, silly, I meant my favorite musicians in general.

And bloop has a point. They seem to be supporting themselves, so why does it matter that they're not all huge hitmakers? I mean, I can't expect everything I like to be the most popular. I guess it would just be nice if I could mention Iona or Sufjan Stevens or whoever and people would at least be vaguely familiar with who the hell I was talking about. it's not that I wish any ill will against most AI contestants... it just doesn't seem fair for them to take the easy way out and get famous while others are putting out such quality pieces of work and they remain more or less in obscurity.

Then again, it's kind of fun to have your "best kept secrets". I mean, I still love Jars of Clay as much as I always did, but I don't feel so special any more for telling people I like them. It can be kind of fun to turn people on to the intrigue of a quality artist they've never heard of... which I guess is part of why I write reviews.

[dgp11776]

I watched the last two nights because where I'm staying my friends were watching it.  Anyways, Bo is the more talented of the two.  On Tuesday, Carrie sang horribly, Bo totally whooped her.  Oh well, winning AI means nothing.  If Carrie can't write her own songs, she'll be forgotten in 5 years.  Bo can sing, play guitar, and hopefully write his own stuff.  If he does that, he'll have the best career out of anyone that was ever on AI.

Just read about these two.  Bo plays piano & guitar, and also dabbles around with the harmonica, sax, and drums.  Carrie plays piano & guitar as well.  So, there you have it...I guess both of them have some level of talent musically beyond singing.

[bloop]

But how much emphasis should be on your "some level"?  I dabble with a guitar.  I don't deserve a record contract for my abilities on the instrument, however.  Even my capabilities on my instrument of choice, a trumpet, aren't good enough, so I wonder if what separates me from them is a conventionally good singing voice and a few years.  We shall see...

[dgp11776]

Supposedly, Carrie played the guitar on one of the elimination episodes, but I missed that one.