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The Phorum > Life > Faith (Moderators: Josh, enemy anemone, Vlad!) > More Calvinism/Arminianism (sorry!)
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Author Topic: More Calvinism/Arminianism (sorry!)  (Read 298 times)
Josh
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« on: August 02, 2003, 11:03:04 PM »
Sorry for beating a dead horse here, but I'm genuinely curious.

Let's say for a moment that I believe in free will.

Now let's say that when God asked Noah to do the whole ark-building thing, Noah said no. He did, after all, have the free will to do so, and a loving God wouldn't force him into anything, even if it meant sacrificing the entire human race so that Noah could have a choice.

So Noah declines. Humankind is now screwed.

But let's pretend like another man was asked to save mankind. But he declined, as well! Nobody on earth wants to do God's ark-building dirty work!

So... what happens? Have I misunderstood your beliefs somewhere along the way? Or is my hypothetical situation possible?

You know, it'd be nice to hear from some of our more quiet participants on this one. Folks who don't speak up on such debates.  =)  
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BigBird
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« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2003, 12:11:59 AM »
Um, in that case, God would look at himself in the mirror, and renounce Himself.
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« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2003, 09:10:27 AM »
God doesn't need humans to exist.  He could always just start his human experiment over again, couldn't he?..or just scrap the idea.  That'd be my choice if I was God (good thing I'm not, eh?)
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smartash
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« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2003, 10:26:03 AM »
in that case, God could just say, "ok, fine, screw ALL Y'ALL" and flood the earth, shem, ham, japheth and all!
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\"I haven't come for only you, but for my people to pursue. you cannot care for Me with no regard for Her; if you love Me you will love the Church.\"

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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2003, 11:22:52 AM »
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Now let's say that when God asked Noah to do the whole ark-building thing, Noah said no. He did, after all, have the free will to do so, and a loving God wouldn't force him into anything, even if it meant sacrificing the entire human race so that Noah could have a choice.

So Noah declines. Humankind is now screwed.
God's not stupid. The person He picks to continue the human race would not refuse to obey Him. If there were nobody on earth who would be willing to obey Him, He would probably be justified in destroying everyone and starting over.

But in answer of your question, God could 'force' Noah to do His will. I just don't think He would.  
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
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standman87
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« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2003, 10:34:55 PM »
Quote
Sorry for beating a dead horse here, but I'm genuinely curious.

Let's say for a moment that I believe in free will.

Now let's say that when God asked Noah to do the whole ark-building thing, Noah said no. He did, after all, have the free will to do so, and a loving God wouldn't force him into anything, even if it meant sacrificing the entire human race so that Noah could have a choice.

So Noah declines. Humankind is now screwed.

But let's pretend like another man was asked to save mankind. But he declined, as well! Nobody on earth wants to do God's ark-building dirty work!

So... what happens? Have I misunderstood your beliefs somewhere along the way? Or is my hypothetical situation possible?

You know, it'd be nice to hear from some of our more quiet participants on this one. Folks who don't speak up on such debates.  =)
God had plans to destroy those who were not faithful to Him - at first glance, this seemed like the destruction of all of humankind. But Noah and his family chose to serve God, even before the ark.
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I tried to say the right things in the right way, but  simple silence is the only way to conclude my attempt.

Ponderings and then restatements from both sides will cause more of the same.

So remember: Stan, yes, this man, gave his best and is leaving it up to you and Him to do the rest.

Farewell
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