Switchfoot-- Nothing is Sound

[dieusaxa5]

Anyone else tired of them dancing around the Gospel?

Can't say that I am.  What I like about their method is that it allows for meditating on aspects of the Christian life, instead of the Gospel being just a one-shot deal.  

In fact, that one word just about sums it all--mediation.  They allow meditation.

[amalgamate]

Nope. I don't limit art by expecting it to always explicitly explain itself.

NP: "Ready and Waiting to Fall", Mae

yeah, i mean...not that we could ever know...but as long as they're not intentionally leaving it out for accessibility's sake i think it's cool.

I don't think it should be watered down, but Jon hasn't changed his style since record one really...so, i don't have a problem with it, because this is how he writes..he's not changing it for anyone.  

[oneafroboy]

I'm not limiting art to explicitly explain itself.

But I get the feeling like it *is* purposefully left out. But I can't say that for certain. I don't know. This goes along my frustration with the repetitive themes, I think.

I'm not saying what they should do. It's their choice. But I feel like it's dancing around versus true meditation, if that makes sense...

I don't know. It just gets old after awhile. It's one thing to be meditating about life and such and such a thing, when done by a Christian, will be colored by faith. It's another thing to be carefully tiptoeing around the Gospel.

Can someone explain to me why they often refer to the Spirit? It seems like anyone can relate to a "spirit," especially in this post-modern, believe in whatever you want age.

Does anyone else find this at least intriguing? Something noteworthy? Maybe it's just me...

[murlough23]

Sorry, but I'm not going to jump on the "Let's accuse Switchfoot of being vague and new-agey and ashamed of Christ" bandwagon. Yes, their themes are repetitive. But if they wanted to hide their faith, they could certainly do a much better job.

NP: "We're So Far Away", Mae

[amalgamate]

Sorry, but I'm not going to jump on the "Let's accuse Switchfoot of being vague and new-agey and ashamed of Christ" bandwagon. Yes, their themes are repetitive. But if they wanted to hide their faith, they could certainly do a much better job.

NP: "We're So Far Away", Mae

yes, that's very true. While i'm not one that thinks they're trying to water down anything, i still never really thought of it that way.  

[BenBarrett]

If you look at the history of Switchfoot, you'll find that they've never been a band that writes about things in the traditional "christian" manner. Long before mainstream exposure was even remotely a possibility, Jon was writing songs that didn't explicitly mention Jesus or God (excepting one or two songs), and yet spoke from a distinctly christian perspective. "The legend of Chin", their first album, was made up primarily of songs that Jon had written to share with his family and friends (until Charlie Peacock got a hold of a tape). "The Beautiful Letdown" is more spiritual and definitely expresses more christian ideas than that album did. "The Beautiful Letdown" and "24" are probably among the most obviously christian songs Switchfoot has ever produced.

The point is, it just doesn't add up to accuse Switchfoot of tiptoeing around their faith. and I don't recall many people doing that until they went mainstream...

[oneafroboy]

I can see that it's going to be very hard to have an intelligent conversation abotu this.

I don't really equate it to them being ashamed of it. I think everyone should do as they feel they are being called. If Switchfoot is being called to make music like this, okay. I can't say they aren't. I just want to see what other people think about this. But everyone's going to think I'm coming at it from the "back when they were a Christian band" attitude. I'm not. It does not really have to do with them going mainstream either. I've been a fan from early on, yes, but my questioning or raising-of-the-eyebrows comes from listening to them for "so long."

For instance. Look at U2. Or Over the Rhine. Or Rich Mullins. All Christians artists (or at least U2 is mostly). One could argue that they approached their songwriting as Christians in different ways. I don't feel the same way about them as I do Switchfoot. I don't even feel the same way about Sixpence as I do Switchfoot.

I guess what really started this whole thing for me was when I went to a Switchfoot concert in 2003. It was fine concert and all. But it was weird. Jon started talking about how we were meant to live for so much more, etc., etc., and I got really excited. I thought he was going to present the Gospel. He didn't. And I'm not one to pull the speck out of my brother's eye before out the plank in my own. My point is that *I* felt weird about it. Like, there was this build up, you know, and then nothing. (I don't just mean saying the Lord's name either.) And it just felt weird as a fellow believer, as their brother.

I'm trying to be careful of not accussing them, but am simply describing what it appears like to me. I would love to talk the guys and just get their take on how they write songs. If this is the way the songs have come out, then great--you can't force art. I know that. I'm a musician, a writer, too. But if not...then that would be kind of weird.  

And I've heard someone said that you have to think of their audience. I agree with this, too. Though, I don't think being open about your faith scares people away. But maybe it doesn't invite as many questions as Switchfoots lyrics might...?

And I like Meant to Live by the way. And I realize Redemption is a song about Christ (or I think it is). And yes the Beautiful Letdown (the song) mentions carrying a cross in place I don't belong. I guess I'm presenting this wrong. I'm just trying to make out what they're doing. And if it's a personal choice, songwriting maturity, or whatever. I'm just trying to bounce ideas around about this. I didn't know if anyone else found this peculiar at all. If anyone found their apparent approach to the "how can you be a successful (both in terms of quality and the commercial aspect as well) artist and still remain true to your first love, Christ?" interesting, eyebrow raising.

Because I do think it's interesting that they are more likely to say Spirit than the Lord's name. But once again, it could just be me..

[Brenden]

You sound like someone I know, and I still don't understand what the problem is. They haven't said "we're avoiding the gospel", so I give them the benefit of the doubt. Obviously we can't judge them, because we don't know everything.

I guess I just don't see anything wrong with using a little tact.

Besides, who goes to a concert to hear someone talk, much less share the gospel?

[amalgamate]

For instance. Look at U2. Or Over the Rhine. Or Rich Mullins. All Christians artists (or at least U2 is mostly). One could argue that they approached their songwriting as Christians in different ways. I don't feel the same way about them as I do Switchfoot. I don't even feel the same way about Sixpence as I do Switchfoot.

 

i'm trying to understand what you mean specifically with this part. How is switchfoot's writing different than that of U2 or over the rhine or sixpence? I see a similar style in a lot of their stuff. One could even argue that switchfoot sets a better example when it comes to humbling yourself before God than say Bono who does a lot of good things but comes across as arrogant at times and for people who aren't really into U2 and know what they're all about can be put off to christianity because of him at times.

I think the guys from switchfoot do a better job than most bands by living the things that they write about, and that's what i respect most about them. They choose to communicate their message in their own way, i can't debate them on how they've always chosen to do something. I think they ARE reaching people, taking a peruse through their official sf boards can tell you that (although they used to be a lot better). I don't think their music is an answer to life's problems by any means but a lot of kids come (or came..i haven't been there in a while) to those boards seeking, wondering what switchfoot was all about and what they meant by certain things in their music. People on the board kind of got tired of people asking if they were a christian band, but it was a great opportunity for ministry and it's really cool to see the body of Christ working in that way.  

[murlough23]

I can see that it's going to be very hard to have an intelligent conversation abotu this.

That's because what you're saying is based entirely in your assumptions of their intentions, and not at all in fact. So you got a weird vibe. So what?

The fact is, it's not exactly news to anyone who likes Switchfoot that tehy are Christians. Quite frankly, I think it's nice to go to a Switchfoot concert, hear songs that communicate questions and struggles which will lead a person to the Gospel, and not have to sit through all the proselytizing about stuff I already know. People don't go to concerts to hear speeches; they go to hear good renditions of songs they like by artists they like. If there's a message for them to get, that message is in the songs. Switchfoot's role is something that I see more as a seed-planting role - they provoke Christians and non-Christians (yes, there are Christians out there who are living fairly shallow lives and I think a lot of Switchfoot songs are gonna hit them right between the eyes on that one) to think about what exactly the purpose of all of this is. I don't think that it's necessary for the seed-planters to be the seed-waterers and the garden-tenders. Different people have different roles, and you're being limiting to Switchfoot by insisting that they play all of the roles.

[oneafroboy]

Well, I'm not really making assumptions. I've made it clear that I'm stating what "seems to me"--it's not even a judgment, per se. I'm just thinking about what they are doing.

I think that all songs should be answers to life's problems. And I think it's fine to have songs that leave questions. Art should make us think. Yes. Yes. Yes.

I agree with all this. And I am not saying what SF is doing is wrong. They should do as they feel God is leading them. Period.

This does not mean I can't think and think critically about how they come off or how it seems they approach music and faith. I'm not even asking the whole usual Christian fanboy banter. I am trying to ask a deeper question. But I think I am not communicating my ideas very well. (Btw, I don't think there are answers to this question I'm trying to ask.) This seems like a question much better asked in conversation. Or if I had the time (which I do not) to write like a whole essay on it.

As much as I would like to argue and discuss this further, I realize that I have little time and energy to do that sort of thing anymore (on message boards and such). (E.g.--well, who ever wants to hear the Gospel ever? Should we then never speak it?) I think I'm going to return to lurking, which I was quite content on doing.    

[dgp11776]

Possibly the album cover.

[amalgamate]

Possibly the album cover.

i really like it

[Wildcatblue7]

Possibly the album cover.

blah.

Well, I guess I better start preparing for the barrage of Switchfoot fanpeoples in the months to come.  Ugh.

[Silvah]

I don't know why, but I'm prepared for this album to be mediocre. The album cover looks ok, but nothing special, IMO...

[dgp11776]

I don't know why, but I'm prepared for this album to be mediocre.

Yeah, I'm afraid it could be a letdown.  August 2 is supposedly the release date.  I guess we'll find out then if they've been learning a new way at their craft.

[murlough23]

Yeah, I'm afraid it could be a letdown.  August 2 is supposedly the release date.  I guess we'll find out then if they've been learning a new way at their craft.

Well, even if everyone criticizes it, I'm sure they'll just take it on the chin.

[Tom]

Yeah, I'm afraid it could be a letdown.

and it may not be very beautiful.

[dgp11776]

Well, even if everyone criticizes it, I'm sure they'll just take it on the chin.

I left that one just for you.  =D  

[AholidayattheSea]

Anyone else see the similarities with Jack Johnson's latest and MuteMath's covers?

[BenBarrett]

blah.

Well, I guess I better start preparing for the barrage of Switchfoot fanpeoples in the months to come. Ugh.

Wow, how opened-minded of you.  

Surely there are some people here who give albums a listening chance before they form an opinion? I've learned that bands I originally thought were mediocre could win me over with a solid album...The White Stripes, Jars of Clay, and Project86 all come to mind.

For you, Wildcat, perhaps Switchfoot's latest could be titled Nothing Is Heard.    

[murlough23]

For you, Wildcat, perhaps Switchfoot's latest could be titled Nothing Is Heard.

I think it's better to listen to something before you criticize it, so if she doesn't listen to it, she probably shouldn't be complaining about how everyone is gushing over it or whatever. That's why I listen to Kutless albums, after all. I want to know that something actually sucks before I continue to maintain that it does.

Of course, you do have to go into something with the right mindset, not being determined that you're going to hate it no matter what. You never know, you might have your preconceived notions blown away. That's what happened to me with lanis Morissette, the Dixie Chicks, Plus One, ZOEgirl, and several others.

NP: "Love and Peace or Else", U2

[Wildcatblue7]

blah.

Well, I guess I better start preparing for the barrage of Switchfoot fanpeoples in the months to come. Ugh.

Wow, how opened-minded of you.  

Surely there are some people here who give albums a listening chance before they form an opinion? I've learned that bands I originally thought were mediocre could win me over with a solid album...The White Stripes, Jars of Clay, and Project86 all come to mind.

For you, Wildcat, perhaps Switchfoot's latest could be titled Nothing Is Heard.  

Since I already love Project . . . oh, never mind.

Actually, I'm already predisposed to hate Switchfoot and anything they play because I hate, hate, hate, hate, HATE Jon Foreman's voice.  It's the proverbial nails on the chalkboard.  (That and that style of rock isn't really my thing at this point.)  I think the only Switchfoot songs I've ever liked were New Way to Be Human and oh, I can't remember the other one.  Chem 6A, that's it, and then I heard it too many times.

By the way, I was saying "blah" to the cover art (or proposed cover art).

[Waltrane]

I'm with Wildcat --- that's a horrible album cover. Yuck.  

[murlough23]

I'm with Wildcat --- that's a horrible album cover. Yuck.

I kind of like it. I do see the similarity to Mute Math's cover, though.

[worldofcm]

I guess I'm the only one who sees zero similarities in the two album covers - other than the brown in the background colors.  Fonts are different, concepts are different, pretty much everything except for the one shade of brown.

[murlough23]

I guess I'm the only one who sees zero similarities in the two album covers - other than the brown in the background colors.  Fonts are different, concepts are different, pretty much everything except for the one shade of brown.

It's the sun.

[amalgamate]

wow, mutemath has a sun on their cover
jack johnson has a tree

switchfoot is clearly ripping them off

are you guys serious?

i mean..maybe a SLIGHT similarity to each, but, uh, no
 

[murlough23]

wow, mutemath has a sun on their cover
jack johnson has a tree

switchfoot is clearly ripping them off

are you guys serious?

We're serious that the covers are similar in those ways. You're the one who introduced "ripping off" into the conversation. Feeling defensive, much?

Jon Foreman worked with Mute Math on a song. It makes sense that artists who collaborate with each other would borrow motifs and ideas back and forth. I did not intend for my observation of this similarity to come off as a criticism.

[amalgamate]

wow, mutemath has a sun on their cover
jack johnson has a tree

switchfoot is clearly ripping them off

are you guys serious?

We're serious that the covers are similar in those ways. You're the one who introduced "ripping off" into the conversation. Feeling defensive, much?

Jon Foreman worked with Mute Math on a song. It makes sense that artists who collaborate with each other would borrow motifs and ideas back and forth. I did not intend for my observation of this similarity to come off as a criticism.

haha, okay, maybe slightly defensive

it seemed as if the ripping off was implied. Also, the album isn't even out, so let's give them the benefit of the doubt (not referring to you murlough). They've made some great albums, and other than some mp3's in really bad quality, what's to say that this album won't be pretty damn good.

But anyway, for those that don't like the cover, how come?

[murlough23]

it seemed as if the ripping off was implied. Also, the album isn't even out, so let's give them the benefit of the doubt (not referring to you murlough). They've made some great albums, and other than some mp3's in really bad quality, what's to say that this album won't be pretty damn good.

I'm all for giving an artist the benefit of the doubt. I even try to do that (not always successfully, but hey, I try) with artists whose previous music I've hated. In this instance, though, I think fears that Switchfoot will merely repeat themselves are somewhat founded. As much as I loved TBL, I did find it to be a bit of a repeat subject-wise after LTB. Add to that the concerns some people have over them going too pop (which I don't think they've done yet, but now that they're huge they probably face greater pressure to do it), and I think you can understand why some folks are apprehensive or skeptical about how this album will turn out.

Having said that, once Switchfoot got big, I do think it became trendy to jump on the Switchfoot-hate bandwagon. If you hated them all along, fine, and if you don't like the glossier sound, I understand that (personally, I think it suits them well enough), but I don't think it should be held against a band just because having the same personality that they've had for a few albums now happened to connect with a larger audience. OK, so some folks could think of bands who might be more deserving of the recognition. I'll grant you that. But don't hold it against Switchfoot just because they happened to get lucky. (By "lucky" I'm not implying a lack of quality; I'm just saying that there's always a good degree of luck involved when a Christian band gets significant mainstream exposure and popularity. The general public doesn't exactly have a propensity to like good music, after all.)

NP: "Dalit Hymn", Caedmon's Call

[Wildcatblue7]

But anyway, for those that don't like the cover, how come?

Because it looks just like a jillion other album covers.  And it's just aesthetically boring.

[worldofcm]

Seriously?  A sun.  You've got to be kidding me.

[murlough23]

Seriously?  A sun.  You've got to be kidding me.

Are you trying to antagonize me today?

I pointed out that the suns were similar. Specifically, the rays, if you really must know. I did not indicate that this was an intentional copying or that it was a problem even if it was. One reminds me of the other. That's all.

NP: "China White", He Is Legend

[worldofcm]

Are you trying to antagonize me today?

I pointed out that the suns were similar. Specifically, the rays, if you really must know. I did not indicate that this was an intentional copying or that it was a problem even if it was. One reminds me of the other. That's all.

NP: "China White", He Is Legend

I'm NOT antagonizing you.  Sheesh.

It was a serious question.

[murlough23]

It was a serious question.

OK. So did I answer it?

[Silvah]

I personally think the cover is just boring and bland... maybe it's the color's used, but that's just my opinion...

[Josh]

MTV.com has a story on the new album. They're saying that the album is due in July, though I've heard August from most other places.

[adriftconscious]

To chime in my bit, I've heard quite a few of the songs they've worked on, but one that I really want to hear on this album is "Without Politicians." They played it at a show of theirs that I went to and I loved it. I really hope this track makes the cut. This album-- along with Copeland, Jars of Clay, Over the Rhine, and The Evan Anthem-- was in my top five most anticipated new releases. Copeland and Jars dissappointed me (Don't get me wrong, I like the albums, but they aren't as good as their forebears) and Over the Rhine's didn't quite live up to my expectations. So now its really on Switchfoot and The Evan Anthem. I'll freely admit to entering this album with more than a bit of trepidation because of the pressure to crank out singles that the band was likely under. We'll see, We'll see.

[amalgamate]

at switchfoot.com there's a preview to one of the songs off the new album.

it sounds pretty cool, the song almost gets to the hook which sounds like it could be pretty decent. Hard to tell based on the first 45 secs of one song...but, hey...it's something