Soldiers messed with the Koran? So what!

[PaulDA]

It is asinine in the xtreme that we even have to explain our actions to anyone.
 

How are you going to explain those actions to God? Enlighten me...

If you read the Old Testament, God instructed Israel to decimate their enemies.
There was no Geneva Convention when God was in charge.
If George Bush thinks he is in a righteous war ordained by God he needs to fight to win.
If he doesn't believe this is a righteous God ordained war then he needs to pull out.....NOW.
Besides, we are not doing anything remotely at bad as the Muslims are doing to us and to each other.
How can you compare mishandling a Koran or eating pork in front of prisoners to decapitating paople and blowing up people randomly?

[Vlad!]

Paul, I sympathize with your disgust over this war, but I disagree with your ideas about it.

The Islamic fundamentalists are willing to even sacrifice their own lives to destroy us. We claim to be fighting terrorism. We are fighting those who are willing to torture, kill indiscriminately, and show no respect to those who don't share their beliefs. If we start doing the same things they do, we will have lost the war on terrorism, because WE will have become the new terrorists. It is not enough to just defeat the enemy; we must defeat the enemy without losing ourselves in the process.

[PaulDA]

Paul, I sympathize with your disgust over this war, but I disagree with your ideas about it.

The Islamic fundamentalists are willing to even sacrifice their own lives to destroy us. We claim to be fighting terrorism. We are fighting those who are willing to torture, kill indiscriminately, and show no respect to those who don't share their beliefs. If we start doing the same things they do, we will have lost the war on terrorism, because WE will have become the new terrorists. It is not enough to just defeat the enemy; we must defeat the enemy without losing ourselves in the process.

I'm not advocating doing the same things to them.
I am advocating that our soldiers shouldn't be worried that every time trhey fire a shot or look sideways at a prisoner they may be charged with a crime.
This is war, and while we don't have to act barbaric like the fundamentalist Muslims are doing, we do have to act like we are in a war.
The object of American soldiers is to engage and destroy the enemy.
They can't do that effectively if every liberal watchdog group in the world is going to criticize their every move.

[danny316]

I'm not advocating doing the same things to them.
I am advocating that our soldiers shouldn't be worried that every time trhey fire a shot or look sideways at a prisoner they may be charged with a crime.
This is war, and while we don't have to act barbaric like the fundamentalist Muslims are doing, we do have to act like we are in a war.
The object of American soldiers is to engage and destroy the enemy.
They can't do that effectively if every liberal watchdog group in the world is going to criticize their every move.

No one was saying that soldiers shouldn't be able to fire at the enemy.

The "liberal watchdog group"s are just properly scolding us when we begin to use the type of disgusting practices that we used to recognize as such. I agree with what Vlad said earlier about us becoming another terrorist country when we start using those practices.

Also, it's entertaining if you note that Bush (and a few of the nuttier representatives) have some rather extreme beliefs religion-wise. I find it rather bothersome how much some people want to try to make the US a Christian theocracy, and how they're approaching this as a "Christian" war. I think the main difference is that the fringe interpretation of Islam is based around suicide where the fringe interpretation of Christianity seems to say that killing others is alright. It's funny how much we're all alike when you really think about it.

Edit: Before people attack me for "stereotyping", let me say that not all of our representatives or government are extreme belief-wise, and that Bush is actually pretty moderate compared to some people. Also, not all liberals are watch dogs and not all dogs watch things, or even the same things. Any observations posted are just observations as observed by the observer, and do not imply that all things that may be similar are true simply because this is the way it appears from the information available. Should other information become available or other observations be made, this post may or may not mysteriously disappear or be replied to with another post by the original poster. Insert ridiculous joke here to see who's still reading the crappy disclaimer notice.

[PaulDA]

I'm not advocating doing the same things to them.
I am advocating that our soldiers shouldn't be worried that every time trhey fire a shot or look sideways at a prisoner they may be charged with a crime.
This is war, and while we don't have to act barbaric like the fundamentalist Muslims are doing, we do have to act like we are in a war.
The object of American soldiers is to engage and destroy the enemy.
They can't do that effectively if every liberal watchdog group in the world is going to criticize their every move.

No one was saying that soldiers shouldn't be able to fire at the enemy.

The "liberal watchdog group"s are just properly scolding us when we begin to use the type of disgusting practices that we used to recognize as such. I agree with what Vlad said earlier about us becoming another terrorist country when we start using those practices.
 

.....I don't know what you and Vlad are talking about, but we haven't done anything to these people remotely like they are doing to us and to other Iraqis.
Stripping a prisoner to make them talk is nothing compared to beheading people.
Charging an American soldier with murder because he shot an Iraqi soldier in a battle stituation who moved after he was shot is ridiculous.
This war people! A wounded man can still shoot a soldier, can still throw a hand grenade.
.....These liberal watchdog groups want to COUNT the number of bulletes fired by our men and see if we are 'over firing'! Soldiers cannot fight adequately in a war if they have to worry about every little thing. It's bad enough our police officers have their hands tied in this country, being scrutinized for every little move, while trying to combat hardened murderers and drug dealers, without our soldiers having to worry about the same nonsense.
.....All of these liberal watch dog groups say NOTHING when these people routinely behead people and blow people up and capture and then systematically slaughter groups of people who have surrenedered. They only worry about our soldiers defacing the Koran or 'gasp' using sleep deprivation to make prisoners talk!!
I am sick of the more than double standard, and we should stop catering to these people.

[danny316]

.....I don't know what you and Vlad are talking about, but we haven't done anything to these people remotely like they are doing to us and to other Iraqis.

How well have you been following the news that's coming out about what we've been doing to people? We've been doing some pretty disgusting things. I'll agree that the comparison some people (lefties in particular) make to concentration camps and gulags is a bit excessive, but we're being pretty disgusting here.

Stripping a prisoner to make them talk is nothing compared to beheading people.
Charging an American soldier with murder because he shot an Iraqi soldier in a battle stituation who moved after he was shot is ridiculous.
This war people! A wounded man can still shoot a soldier, can still throw a hand grenade.

If I were suspected to be somehow related to terrorism, I would not be comfortable with stripping. Whatever happened to treating others as we'd like to be treated? I agree with you on the other two counts - soldiers shooting soldiers happens during wars, and although I find this disgusting, it is required by the nature of war.

.....These liberal watchdog groups want to COUNT the number of bulletes fired by our men and see if we are 'over firing'! Soldiers cannot fight adequately in a war if they have to worry about every little thing. It's bad enough our police officers have their hands tied in this country, being scrutinized for every little move, while trying to combat hardened murderers and drug dealers, without our soldiers having to worry about the same nonsense.

What are you talking about? Seriously, who is trying to count bullets? Also, we don't have any safeguards for people who are suspected to be terrorists anymore, even if they are US citizens. Although, if you wouldn't mind being put away indefinitely because you may have once looked at an official funny, that's your thing. I think that way of doing things denies Americans their basic rights and denies everyone basic respect as human beings. One of the things that's supposedly great about America is that we're considered innocent until proven guilty, and we do have some rights even if we are accused of a crime.

.....All of these liberal watch dog groups say NOTHING when these people routinely behead people and blow people up and capture and then systematically slaughter groups of people who have surrenedered. They only worry about our soldiers defacing the Koran or 'gasp' using sleep deprivation to make prisoners talk!!
I am sick of the more than double standard, and we should stop catering to these people.

Actually, they don't like seeing people hurt by other people too. However, there's a difference between Saddam killing thousands and Bush authorizing disgusting tactics - we have a say in how our government works. If there weren't people trying to stop this, it would only show that democracy in the US was a failed experiment. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that the foreign leaders who treat people this way are approved of by the public they rule over.

It's not a double standard, although I see how that illusion could be seen from where you're sitting. The thing is, if I whine about our country doing this, I might be able to make it stop. Other leaders who do these things are not going to give a rat's ass if people in the US don't like them. Trying to stop terrible things from happening under our own roof is a much more practical goal than trying to stop this worldwide. (Although, I find it humourous that our attempt to stop it worldwide leads to us doing it to our people and to other people on a smaller scale.)