What happens when things go horribly wrong?

[PaulDA]

I hear a lot of testimonies about:
"How God saved me from a car accident, and He's a good God"
or
"God delivered my son from drugs, God is so Good"
or
"I prayed and God got me out of the World Trade Center alive, God is faithful."
While it is wonderful when these things happen, and yes God IS good, what about when horrible things happen to Christians who love God just as much?
.....For example, I don't know how many of you read this news story or heard it on the news, but a seven year old boy was killed a few days ago on a ride at Playland Amusement Park in Rye, NY. The ride was very safe, a slow moving boat ride, but the boy somehow leaned over the boat and was pulled under of something like that.
The boy is the son of a prominent Pastor from Darien, CT. I've visited that church a few times, and I know people who go there, and this man and his wife are devoted to God.
.....I just wonder sometimes if people realize that when they say "God is faithful because he protected me from this or that", that maybe that can make other Christians feel bad when bad things happen to them or their families.
After all, they love God, "why wasn't he faithful to us"?
.....For instance, when 911 happened, a few Christians were on the news saying how "God is a loving and great God because He spared our lives", and yet, there must have been hundreds of Christians who perished in 911.
I know we should love God through every adversity and through every glorious happening, but how do we get around not making other Christians feel bad when good things happen to us and we say "God is faithful" while devastating things happened to them?

 

[PaulDA]

I thought of this thread because Mary Mary have a song on their new album called believer and they say "I'm a believer, God had us leave our house one night and a fire broke out and he saved our lives". It's easy to believe when God does miracles for us. I think this can be a wrong message, to let people think you are be a believer because God saved you from something. Now what about all the people who believe and had people die in horrible accidents?
What about saying "I'm a believer even though my son died of leukemia at the age of 4?"
Does anyone get what I am trying to say?
I'm not saying to not be grateful when good things happen, I am saying that sometimes Christians maybe don't have tact when they equate "God is good because He helped me"" or "God is faithful" with "believing in God."
 

[phaith]

wow...Paul, you are timely to my life right now...I am asking that exact question. I will not go deep into it, all I get from people are these little pat-answers but nothing that encourages my soul. I hear stories all over the place how god protected people and I wonder why he did not protect me...I even had someone say to me..."well, you are still alive, that is something to be thankful for." I laughed and said, "trust me I would have rather died!"

I'm not as morbid now as I used to be, but up until a few weeks ago (literally) I have wanted to die...and have felt this way since I was a child.

Don't get me wrong, I am happy when people are saved from things, I would never want anyone to go through what I did...but *I* also never wanted to go through it either.  

[dgp11776]

Read no further than the first few verses of 2 Timothy, and you get the feeling that the APOSTLE Paul knows what you're talking about.  He says that he is still in the will of God...even though he is locked up in a dark dungeon, fully aware that his only escape will be through his death.  And, yet, he still understands that he serves a God of "grace, mercy, and peace."

[Vlad!]

[PaulDA]

Good points everyone, I see others also wonder about this.
.....Phaith, I didn't knows things had been so bad a few years ago, and if you told me, I apologize for not remembering. Please talk to me anytime you want someone to listen to you. I am always there for you.
.....I read in some Christian book, maybe by
Max Lucado (Phaith's favorite, I know    =) ) or someone else, that Christians need to be careful how they word something when God performs a miracle for the.
In other words, it is always appropriate to say "God is a wonderful God, He is perfect", but is it appropriate to say, "God saved me from harm and He is a faithful and good God.?
After all, isn't God "good" and "fdaithful" even when things go horribly wrong? I just wonder sometimes if some people wear "good things that happened to them" on their sleeves like a badge of honor or something, and are really bragging as opposed to worshipping God just because God is God.

[phaith]

That is the thing...is he good and faithful everyone? Or just to some...I'm looking but not seeing...

I can't stand it when people say 'God will only give you what you can handle'...If you knew my life you would agree with me that I am NOT 'handleing this'.  

[phaith]

ps...please don't attempt to give me answers...unless you absolutely know for sure one that will actually help...the rest just make me feel worse...It is always better to say nothing than the wrong thing.

[PaulDA]

ps...please don't attempt to give me answers...unless you absolutely know for sure one that will actually help...the rest just make me feel worse...It is always better to say nothing than the wrong thing.

Here's what I think.
I hope it helps, because I am really as confused as you are my friend.(hugs)
People are the ones who screw up what God is, not God.
Christians tend to hop around and love God when He does things for them.
To many of them:  
'Miracles/prosperity/good health/surviviing accidents, etc' = 'God is a GOOD and FAITHFULGod.'
.....The actual truth is, God is a GOOD and FAITHFUL God just because He IS God,
not because of anything He does for us. That is what is so hard for us to grasp.
The key is for us to try and praise Him when things are at their worst.
I know this is VERY hard to do, and believe me, I will admit I don't do it.
However, the Bible says to praise God for everything, and I guess that measn the good and the bad.
Faith, you and I are in the same boat, I find it very hard to praise God just for being God, and I think many of the Christians who always say we should do that, are really just giving out 'Christianese' answers and probably don't always practice what they preach either.
It takes a person very spiritually deep into God, like Job, to say, "Though He slays me, I will worship Him".

[PaulDA]

That is the thing...is he good and faithful everyone? Or just to some...I'm looking but not seeing...

I can't stand it when people say 'God will only give you what you can handle'...If you knew my life you would agree with me that I am NOT 'handleing this'.

Sometimes we don't know we can handle something....we get weak....it happens to all of us, many times with me.
If God says He will not give us anything we cannot handle, He means it.
We are the ones who don't handle it.
And please don't take what I am saying personally, because I am also not handling quite a few thongs myself at the moment.

[Vlad!]

[Vlad!]

[PaulDA]

[Tom]

the way i try to rationalize "bad things happening to good people" is by thinking about it indirectly.

if a Christian gets cancer and dies, while it may make their family grieve, the person who died is now in Paradise. the family's grief is real, but it would be lessened if they considered that their loved one will never hurt again.

when terrible things come your way that do not involve death, but DO involve personal discomfort, stress and anxiety try to look at it as an opportunity to put your faith to the test.

it gives us the chance to think. do i really believe that our temporal existence on earth is small in comparison to an eternity in heaven? or do i in Practice treat this world as if it is the only world, and treat heaven as a vague something-or-other that is intangible, and somehow less-than-real?

when our actions and thoughts betray that we ultimately view this life as the only reality, then we get disappointed/overwhelmed far more easily than if we view it as a testing period before the grandeur of eternity.

i've had a lot of crap happen to me. haven't we all? but it helps me greatly to remember, "to live is Christ. to die is gain."

by no means am i encouraging suicide, but death is a reward to the believer, not a punishment.

[DB]

Sorry to butt in, being unregistered and unknown and all.  Please don't take me too seriously, because I don't (or I shouldn't, at least).

Paul, you mentioned that the Bible says we should praise God for everything.  But honestly, I don't think the Bible says that, or that God requires that of us.  Rather, I think the message is more like this:

It is not that we should praise God for everything.

We should praise God in the midst of everything.

Job didn't praise God for his misfortunes, but he continued praising him.  The Bible said that Job refrained from sinning by not blaming God for his horrible misfortune.  But he did not praise him for it either--that would be unnecessary and, well, stupid.  He praised God for the new life he was given, that was better even than the last.  

It is foolish to think that we should praise God for the tragedies that life hands us--God weeps when a skyscraper crumbles to the ground and kills hundreds; he is much sadder than we can know.  He mourns the deaths of those who die alone and hungry and barren of hope when we hardly blink.  It is arbitrary to think that we should praise God for every misfortune and misconduct.  Praising God for everything means praising Him, not just for good, but for evil as well.

We praise him for the new good that can blossom from pain.  For the place he's brought us to once we're across the desert.  And, we count it all joy when the burdens finally slide from our backs.  

Sorry if this is totally unhelpful to you, Phaith.  But remember that there is always the potential for good, even when we can't see it; the best things sometimes come after utter despair takes us up---and wins.

[PaulDA]

My point is this, and I think people are not getting it, or are drifting away from it:
When people say "I BELIEVE in God BECAUSE he saved my child" or
"God is a GOOD God BECAUSE He took me out of drugs" or
"God is faithful BECAUSE He healed me", then all that is wrong.
God is GOOD and FAITHFUL no matter WHAT happens to us.
We should BELIEVE in God no matter WHAT happens to us,
just because He IS God.
When Christians stipulate
belief =what God has done for me,
then they are walking on dangerous ground, shifting sand, and their faith will be weak as soon as any bad things happens.
Also, it makes people who believe in God and who have had tragedy happen, stumble because they will think:"If I'm supposed to believe in God when He does good things for me, why should I believe in Him when bad things happen?"

[PaulDA]

[DB]

Exactly.  Give thanks in all circumstances.  Not for all circumstances.

[PaulDA]

Exactly.  Give thanks in all circumstances.  Not for all circumstances.

That's semantics.
It means to thank God for everything, no matter what.
 

[DB]

All good comes from God.  Not all evil.  How do we thank God for things that don't come from God?  We thank God for the good that comes through these things, not evil itself.

[Vlad!]

DB, I agree with what you are saying. However, I also think that there are cases where things that we see to be bad are truly a gift from God. In his book The Heavenly Man, a Chinese pastor named Brother Yun describes his imprisonment and torture for his faith. He makes it clear that this was a message to him from God, allowing him to see where he had gone wrong. He later thanks and praises God for this imprisonment and for the discipline that he came to see as loving.