Rebecca St. James new album

[PaulDA]

How? Its not the right proportion. They'll have to squish her and make her look like a munchkin. Ah, but perhaps I doubt the skill of modern technology.

 , I'm just joshing (or vlad!ing ).....I have no idea what the cover will be.

[Brenden]

, I'm just joshing (or vlad!ing ).....I have no idea what the cover will be.

Oh thank God! That would have been an awful album cover, though it isn't a bad picture.

[murlough23]

Riiiiiiiiight.....  

Alright, so I guess I do care alittle bit... but only insofar as that I get a mild amount of amusement from theie overall thoughtlessness regarding the subject of creativity in music.

Anyway, I don't expect RSJ to stop doing worship songs, nor do I expect her to make everything intensely personal and introspective. I'm just a bit skeptical that she will give us what she says she's going to give us, because most CCM artists fail to follow through on promises of lyrical depth when such promises are made. All of my favorite RSJ albums (the God through Transform era) have a high quotient of worship songs, and even a few covers each if you exclude Transform), and with the exception of "Wait for Me", none of those songs are very personal, but many of them are creative and versatile in the way that they are written, played, and produced. I enjoyed that and I wouldn't mind hearing a new spin on that for 2005. But what I don't want is inane choruses beefed up with guitars to give us the surface impression that she's gone back to her "rock" sound. I didn't just enjoy God because it rocked; I enjoyed God because of its textures and oddities. Same thing for Pray and Transform, though it showed up in different forms on those albums.

[PaulDA]

Alright, so I guess I do care alittle bit... but only insofar as that I get a mild amount of amusement from theie overall thoughtlessness regarding the subject of creativity in music.

Anyway, I don't expect RSJ to stop doing worship songs, nor do I expect her to make everything intensely personal and introspective. I'm just a bit skeptical that she will give us what she says she's going to give us, because most CCM artists fail to follow through on promises of lyrical depth when such promises are made. All of my favorite RSJ albums (the God through Transform era) have a high quotient of worship songs, and even a few covers each if you exclude Transform), and with the exception of "Wait for Me", none of those songs are very personal, but many of them are creative and versatile in the way that they are written, played, and produced. I enjoyed that and I wouldn't mind hearing a new spin on that for 2005. But what I don't want is inane choruses beefed up with guitars to give us the surface impression that she's gone back to her "rock" sound. I didn't just enjoy God because it rocked; I enjoyed God because of its textures and oddities. Same thing for Pray and Transform, though it showed up in different forms on those albums.

You know what Murlough.....you are a cool guy.
I enjoy reading you posts even when I disagree with them.
I happen to agree with what you said here.
I know some people who have heard the entire 'Alive' and I don't think that chorus is indicative of the whole song.
Let's also wait and see what 'Lest I Forget' and 'Shadowlands' sound like.
Those are awesome ssounding titles to me.

[murlough23]

I know some people who have heard the entire 'Alive' and I don't think that chorus is indicative of the whole song.

I often don't expect the first single (isn't that one going to be the first single?) to be indicative of an entire record. And choruses are often repetitive, just to be catchy and stick in yuor head, while the verses have more meat to them. Case in point - No Doubt's "Hey Baby", which sounds extremely inane from its title and its chorus lyrics, but if you pay attention to the lyrics, you'll realize it's actually lampooning/criticizing the lifestyle that at first it sounds like it's promoting. Very clever.

Let's also wait and see what 'Lest I Forget' and 'Shadowlands' sound like.
Those are awesome sounding titles to me.

Yeah, those did sound interesting. Isn't "Shadowlands" a C. S. Lewis thing?

[PaulDA]

[PaulDA]

Let's also wait and see what 'Lest I Forget' and 'Shadowlands' sound like.
Those are awesome sounding titles to me.

Yeah, those did sound interesting. Isn't "Shadowlands" a C. S. Lewis thing?

I think it is. I have never read Narnia.
I do know that the song she is doing on the Narnia movie sountrack is called 'Lion'.

[PaulDA]

Here is a link to a video of the Harvest concert in Australia.
Rebecca sings three of her new songs
and also has an awesome new arrangement of 'Wait For Me'.
The songs are:
God Help Me.....Alive.....Wait For Me.....You Are Loved.
Fast forward 38:35 minutes to see it:
http://www.harvest.org/crusades/webcast/me.../24-wmvhigh.asx

[murlough23]

and also has an awesome new arrangement of 'Wait For Me'.

Uh-oh. That probably means I'm gonna hate it. We always disagree on live arrangements.

[PaulDA]

Uh-oh. That probably means I'm gonna hate it. We always disagree on live arrangements.

Well, I appreciate artists who change their songs up with different arrangements every year or so when they sing live.
I'm so used to James Brown, who usually has a different arrangement every couple of years for most of his songs ever since i can remember when I started to see him live in 1971 in New Haven, CT, that I expect this from other artists also.
Nothing annoys me more than to see an artists three years later and hear the exact same arrangements to songs.
Same songs: fine, same arrangements: not so good.
Even if the new arrangements aren't as good to me as the old ones, I still can appreciate a new sound.
I'm not saying I like the new 'Wait For Me' better than the last arrangement a couple of years ago when there was a slow piano intro and she sang the first part slow and then it got faster, but I enjoy seeing it done differently.
*Wonders what Murlough thinks of the three new songs?*
I think they are wonderful.
'God Help Me' is deeper than the title would imply, and 'You Are Loved' is a type of instrumental arrangement I have never heard from RSJ before and the lyrics are more personal since they are based on a friend she knows who has slipped away from God. 'Alive' is very good also, now that I hear the body of the song, the chorus fits in well and sounds less like that Ashley Simpson song 'La La'.

[murlough23]

Regarding live arrangements, they can be interesting, but when a song already has an awesome arrangement on CD, it's risky to change it up. One band who I think has succeeded in doing this is Jars of Clay, though they haven't been without their pitfalls in that department (see every live version of "Liquid" between 1997 and 2004). Sometimes they've come up with arrangements that rival or top the album arrangements. I don't expect that every song will be different every time, because that can be disorienting when trying to sing along. Sometimes less is more, and hearing the album arrangement with more of a live energy is a sufficient enough change.

NP: "God Help Me (live)", Rebecca St. James

[murlough23]

OK, listened to the webcast. I like the style of the new songs. The new arrangement of "Wait for Me" was awesome... way better than the album version, which I felt was rather pedestrian in the midst of a set of otherwise high-octane songs. "You Are Loved" was interesting, but I wonder if they took the percussion and other layers away from what we might end up hearing on the album, just because RSJ wanted the audience to be able to hear the words. I can picture that one being quiet like that for a while and then kind of exploding. We'll see how it turns out on the album, I guess.

[PaulDA]

OK, listened to the webcast. I like the style of the new songs. The new arrangement of "Wait for Me" was awesome... way better than the album version, which I felt was rather pedestrian in the midst of a set of otherwise high-octane songs. "You Are Loved" was interesting, but I wonder if they took the percussion and other layers away from what we might end up hearing on the album, just because RSJ wanted the audience to be able to hear the words. I can picture that one being quiet like that for a while and then kind of exploding. We'll see how it turns out on the album, I guess.

My Favorite was actually 'God Help Me'. I just love the style of the song.
About 'You Are Loved' exploding on the album, maybe that is supposed to be a bit subtle becuse of the subject matter of the song. It would be nice to have some reall 'rockish' fast songs and then a few mellower ones also.
What do you think?
And....we agree on 'Wait For Me!' HA! I also think it was a rather 'plain' song on Transform, but I gues we have to realize to whom it was aimed at.....young teens.
I guess now that it is so well known, Rebecca feels she can expand and improve on the arrangement in concert. That would make a nice extra track by the way, a studio version of 'Wait For Me' with that new arrangement.

[murlough23]

About 'You Are Loved' exploding on the album, maybe that is supposed to be a bit subtle becuse of the subject matter of the song. It would be nice to have some reall 'rockish' fast songs and then a few mellower ones also.

Maybe not exploding, but crecendoing in a manner similar to a song like "Worlds Apart" by Jars of Clay. I don't know; maybe I'm thinking inside the box too much, but the ending of the song left me wanting. It felt unfinished. Perhaps it will make more sense in the context of the album, with whatever song follows it.

Anyway, I have no problem with mellow, restrained songs... that one just felt like it had some pent-up passion just waiting to be let out.

And....we agree on 'Wait For Me!' HA! I also think it was a rather 'plain' song on Transform, but I gues we have to realize to whom it was aimed at.....young teens.

Young teens who like their songs plain? Uh... I don't see how that follows.

I guess now that it is so well known, Rebecca feels she can expand and improve on the arrangement in concert. That would make a nice extra track by the way, a studio version of 'Wait For Me' with that new arrangement.

I'd be interested in having that version of the song recorded in the studio, but not necessarily tacked on to the album. I like for albums to be complete and self-contained - throwing on a remix of a song from somewhere else seems to interrupt that by taking me outside of it. I actually felt similar about the remake of "Dare You to Move" on Switchfoot's The Beautiful Letdown.

[PaulDA]

Young teens who like their songs plain? Uh... I don't see how that follows.
 

Maybe 'plain' isn't the operative word.
The 'arrangement' was 'pop/teenish', imo, for girls mostly who like the Britney's of the world.
In order to get a target audience to listen you first have to get their attention.

[murlough23]

Maybe 'plain' isn't the operative word.
The 'arrangement' was 'pop/teenish', imo, for girls mostly who like the Britney's of the world. In order to get a target audience to listen you first have to get their attention.

The problem with that assumption is that you're forgetting why the first person to do such a thing got their attention. Just imitating that is not guaranteed to get you anything. That song got attention for its lyrics, not so much its music. It would have gotten attention regardless of what it sounded like, just because it had a message that finally paid off on what RSJ had been speaking about for so many years. The CCM audience wanted a song about this from someone they could trumpet as a virginity icon. Nobody cared if the music showed any creativity... or even the lyrics for that matter. (Having said that, it shows a little. I like how it ends in the chimes that segue into the next song on the record.)

The problem with a young teen audience... or really any audience, is that they are fickle. You can't expect to continue appealing to them by doing the same thing that everyone else got popular by doing. It's only so long before they realize you're just donning a costume and doing an impression, and it's not really you. That can be entertaining for a short time - it may turn heads if you're lucky, but it won't get you much in terms of long-term loyalty. Being yourself and being interesting is the much better way to go. I don't think we should assume all teenagers are dumb enough to immediately be infatuated with whatever possesses similarity to the current, hip sound.

Anyway, the new arrangement fits the song better, IMO, because it has a more interesting melody and there's some tension to it that depicts the longing she feels. And I'm not so sure the original "Wait for Me" has a teen pop arrangement - it just sounds like normal fluffy love song pop to me. If you want a teenybopper song on that record, go listen to "One". Yeesh, that one's horrible. (Then again, "Universe" has that sound, too, and they did something really wonderful with that song by giving it more mystique, proving that the teen pop style could actually be adapted intelligently in a worshipful context. But "One" and "Universe" should definitely not have been back-to-back.)

One of these days, I'd love to hear someone write the flip-side of "Wait for Me" - a song about how wonderful and holy it is to have that experience (talked about in a tasteful way, of course) when you've done what God commands and you've waited for that partner and now you're married to them.

Oh wait, Charlie Peacock already wrote that song. And he got slapped on the hand for it, if I recall correctly.

[PaulDA]

Anyway, the new arrangement fits the song better, IMO, because it has a more interesting melody and there's some tension to it that depicts the longing she feels. And I'm not so sure the original "Wait for Me" has a teen pop arrangement - it just sounds like normal fluffy love song pop to me. If you want a teenybopper song on that record, go listen to "One". Yeesh, that one's horrible. (Then again, "Universe" has that sound, too, and they did something really wonderful with that song by giving it more mystique, proving that the teen pop style could actually be adapted intelligently in a worshipful context. But "One" and "Universe" should definitely not have been back-to-back.)
 

I WHOLEHEARDEDLY agree that the new 'Wait For Me' arrangement was much better and also that 'One' was not so good, and I didn't like 'Universe' either. That whole 'make the person's voice sound like they are submerged in water' thing doesn't appeal to me at all.
And you are also correct that they should never have been back to back. What made it worse was that 'Wait For Me' was also in that section.....three songs back to back with basically the same beat.

[PaulDA]

Maybe 'plain' isn't the operative word.
The 'arrangement' was 'pop/teenish', imo, for girls mostly who like the Britney's of the world. In order to get a target audience to listen you first have to get their attention.

The problem with that assumption is that you're forgetting why the first person to do such a thing got their attention. Just imitating that is not guaranteed to get you anything. That song got attention for its lyrics, not so much its music. It would have gotten attention regardless of what it sounded like, just because it had a message that finally paid off on what RSJ had been speaking about for so many years. The CCM audience wanted a song about this from someone they could trumpet as a virginity icon. Nobody cared if the music showed any creativity... or even the lyrics for that matter. (Having said that, it shows a little. I like how it ends in the chimes that segue into the next song on the record.)

The problem with a young teen audience... or really any audience, is that they are fickle. You can't expect to continue appealing to them by doing the same thing that everyone else got popular by doing. It's only so long before they realize you're just donning a costume and doing an impression, and it's not really you. That can be entertaining for a short time - it may turn heads if you're lucky, but it won't get you much in terms of long-term loyalty. Being yourself and being interesting is the much better way to go. I don't think we should assume all teenagers are dumb enough to immediately be infatuated with whatever possesses similarity to the current, hip sound.
 

What I meant was, the sound would appeal to young teens. Not that it necessarily copied the 'Britney' sound, but that it was something they would like.

[murlough23]

I WHOLEHEARDEDLY agree that the new 'Wait For Me' arrangement was much better and also that 'One' was not so good, and I didn't like 'Universe' either. That whole 'make the person's voice sound like they are submerged in water' thing doesn't appeal to me at all.

Ha ha. I don't mind vocal distortion when it's meant to add an air of mystery or a certain fog to a song. For "Universe", that song had a lot of grandeur, so it worked well. That's actually my favorite track on Transform. When the vocal distortion is done just to sound cool, though, it kind of irks me.

What did you think of the vocal distortion on "Reborn"? I thought that song was so trying to mimic Cher's "Believe" when I first heard it, but I have to say, that one's got a hell of a beat and a melody, and the cut-up vocals are actually pretty memorable as an integral part of the song. It's unabashed techno and I love it for that.

What made it worse was that 'Wait For Me' was also in that section.....three songs back to back with basically the same beat.

NARF?! "Wait for Me" had a totally more relaxed and "normal" beat than those other two songs.

NP: "Closer", Sanctus Real

[PaulDA]

What did you think of the vocal distortion on "Reborn"? I thought that song was so trying to mimic Cher's "Believe" when I first heard it, but I have to say, that one's got a hell of a beat and a melody, and the cut-up vocals are actually pretty memorable as an integral part of the song. It's unabashed techno and I love it for that.

NARF?! "Wait for Me" had a totally more relaxed and "normal" beat than those other two songs.

I didn't even notice it in 'Reborn' which I love.
Maybe it's just that type in 'Universe' that I don't like.

As far as 'Wait For Me' having a different beat, to me it was the same, just a bit slower. Especially the drum!! The drum has the exact same sound as 'One'.

What is 'NARF'?

[murlough23]

As far as 'Wait For Me' having a different beat, to me it was the same, just a bit slower. Especially the drum!! The drum has the exact same sound as 'One'.

I'll have to go back and listen again.

What is 'NARF'?

It's another way of saying, "Bwuh?!", "Huh?", "WTF?", or, my personal favorite,  ?

[PaulDA]

Rebecca seems so excited about making original music again.
She says she is more excited than ever.
That is wonderful that a singer can be as excited or even more so after being in the business for 15 years at age 28!!!
 

[murlough23]

Rebecca seems so excited about making original music again.
She says she is more excited than ever.
That is wonderful that a singer can be as excited or even more so after being in the business for 15 years at age 28!!!

As she should be. I just don't get why she was ever excited about making unoriginal music.

[PaulDA]

Rebecca seems so excited about making original music again.
She says she is more excited than ever.
That is wonderful that a singer can be as excited or even more so after being in the business for 15 years at age 28!!!

As she should be. I just don't get why she was ever excited about making unoriginal music.

She didn't say 'original music'. I used that expression to differentiate between doing some covers for her worship albums.
What she did say was she is more excited about making music now than ever before.

[murlough23]

She didn't say 'original music'. I used that expression to differentiate between doing some covers for her worship albums.
What she did say was she is more excited about making music now than ever before.

Yes, and I intended for "unoriginal" to mean worship covers.

[PaulDA]

She didn't say 'original music'. I used that expression to differentiate between doing some covers for her worship albums.
What she did say was she is more excited about making music now than ever before.

Yes, and I intended for "unoriginal" to mean worship covers.

I disagree that worship covers are not original.
Yes, in the sense that they have already been recorded by others, they are not original, but they are original to an extent  if the arrangements are drastically different.
Rebecca took a pop song, 'Let My Words Be Few', for example, and changed the arrangement completely and turned it into a rock song. There is no other version of that song that sounds like hers. As a matter of fact, all the other versions I have heard sound the same, only hers has that extra guitar riff in there.

[amalgamate]

She didn't say 'original music'. I used that expression to differentiate between doing some covers for her worship albums.
What she did say was she is more excited about making music now than ever before.

Yes, and I intended for "unoriginal" to mean worship covers.

I disagree that worship covers are not original.
Yes, in the sense that they have already been recorded by others, they are not original, but they are original to an extent  if the arrangements are drastically different.
Rebecca took a pop song, 'Let My Words Be Few', for example, and changed the arrangement completely and turned it into a rock song. There is no other version of that song that sounds like hers. As a matter of fact, all the other versions I have heard sound the same, only hers has that extra guitar riff in there.

that extra guitar riff...which i'm sure she's responsible for...

[murlough23]

I disagree that worship covers are not original.

I'm trying to say that I meant that in the literal sense - i.e. a song that she did not write. The critical sense... well, that's a matter of opinion, and we've rehashed that one enough times as it is.

Yes, in the sense that they have already been recorded by others, they are not original, but they are original to an extent  if the arrangements are drastically different.

If you really wish to press the issue, most of the arrangements are not that drastically different. "Let My Words Be Few" is a strong interpretation, and I believe I mentioned really liking that one. But for the most part, all she did was make the songs upbeat while the producers and studio players added a ton of bells and whistles. I don't know if either of us can be sure how much of the music we hear on an RSJ record is actually RSJ's idea, truth be told.

[PaulDA]

I don't know if either of us can be sure how much of the music we hear on an RSJ record is actually RSJ's idea, truth be told.

That is irrelevant.
She is the boss, and as such, she has final say over anything that is included in her albums.  

[PaulDA]

.....only hers has that extra guitar riff in there.

that extra guitar riff...which i'm sure she's responsible for...

I'm sure she either suggested it or approved of it when the idea was broached.
As I said above, she's the boss and it won't be in the final product unless she says so. 8-)  

[murlough23]

That is irrelevant.
She is the boss, and as such, she has final say over anything that is included in her albums.

I don't mean to make her out to be a figurehead who has no say in the creative process. However, there's a difference between approving something that sounds good to you, and coming up with it on your own. A lot of the musical rearrangement stuff that you're crediting her for is likely generated by someone else, seeing as RSJ has no demonstrable skills with any instrument (that we know of, anyway).

Christina and I had the final say over the flower arrangements at our wedding. That doesn't mean we can take credit for them.

NP: "O. Lover", Jason Mraz

[PaulDA]

[PaulDA]

Here is 'Alive' in its entirety!
Use either link.

http://boss.streamos.com/real/emicmg/emicm...g/rsj-alive.ram

http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/emicmg/emi...g/rsj-alive.wax

[murlough23]

What I mean is, and this is a little different than the flower arrangements, Rebecca is right in there with the band creating the sound. She writes the material, and sometimes others write with her, but then in the recording studio they all get together and run ideas off each other.

Alright. Prove it.

[PaulDA]

Alright. Prove it.

Prove shmove, just listen to the full 'Alive' version.  

[PaulDA]

Alright. Prove it.

Ok, I'll 'prove' it.
She said so in that letter we read a while back and I've read other times that is how she creates music.
First she writes the songs, has an idea of what it will sound like, then the producer, her and the band experiment on different sounds.

[PaulDA]

http://pclive.org/dates.htm
Click on the lionk and go to the 9/25 service, click on the little camera on the right, and fast forward to about 32:30 to see and hear Rebecca sing one of her new songs, 'Lest I Forget' at her church this past Sunday.
I think it is a beautiful ballad.

[PaulDA]

Here is the final cover:

[murlough23]

Here is the final cover:

That's the MiniDisc version, apparently.

[PaulDA]