What is the U2 song comparing Jesus to Mohammad?

[PaulDA]

I watched the 60 Minutes story on U2 last night.
(It's funny, I always thought Bono's name was pronounced 'BOHno', not 'BAHno') and they showed them a few times in concert, and they were playing one song where Bono was saying Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha, etc were basically equal? And the interviewer said Bono strives for religious tolerance?
If he is saying that, he is sounding like a free mason, and I don't like that at all
What song is that and what is he actually saying?
If he is indeed comparing the Lord Jesus Christ to these other people and saying they are equal, he is off base and I will lose my respect for him.

[AldaForPresident]

It's not a song, but I believe - and Josh could definitely give all the details now - it's one of his rants. They have the Coexist banner they use, with the Islamic crescent as the C, the Star of David as the X, and the cross as the T. Probably during "Love and Peace or Else".

What do I know, though? I'm waiting to watch the DVD until after I see them. Josh?

(I watched the interview, and nothing was said about Buddha that I heard, and it's not referenced on the Coexist thing. Great interview, though.)

Edit: Watching that bit back, because I taped it, I think he said "Jesus, Jew, Muhammad, it's true, all sons of Abraham." That's pretty hard to argue with, since, yeah, that's true.

[PaulDA]

It's not a song, but I believe - and Josh could definitely give all the details now - it's one of his rants. They have the Coexist banner they use, with the Islamic crescent as the C, the Star of David as the X, and the cross as the T. Probably during "Love and Peace or Else".

What do I know, though? I'm waiting to watch the DVD until after I see them. Josh?

(I watched the interview, and nothing was said about Buddha that I heard, and it's not referenced on the Coexist thing. Great interview, though.)

Edit: Watching that bit back, because I taped it, I think he said "Jesus, Jew, Muhammad, it's true, all sons of Abraham." That's pretty hard to argue with, since, yeah, that's true.

So he is comparing Christianity to Islam to Judaism as equal religions.
This is very disturbing.

[AldaForPresident]

So he is comparing Christianity to Islam to Judaism as egqual relions.
This is very disturbing.

I don't know if that's necessarily the point. It's more about "Attempt to get along, because the origins are basically the same." Personally speaking, I believe that it's ridiculous to not consider them equal religions. The histories intersect so often that if one's totally invalid, then they all are. You might not believe the other two, but what makes one more valid in a sense of history and tolerance? (I'm talking about these particular three, which share so many common threads.)

"Coexistence" is right behind them when this is going on. What other possible way is there to take it?

[AldaForPresident]

Paul, here's an article about the Coexist image. It's more about who has the rights to use it and why, but it goes into some detail about its history and place on the Vertigo tour.

[Josh]

Right-- Bono simply said that all three religions trace their history back to one man-- Abraham-- which is a completely true statement. He's not really "comparing" the three so much as pointing to the common ground that they share, and pleading for peace and harmony rather than continued violence.

[PaulDA]

Paul, here's an article about the Coexist image. It's more about who has the rights to use it and why, but it goes into some detail about its history and place on the Vertigo tour.

This is what bothers me:

Their motto: "Jesus, Jew, Muhammad, it's true...All sons of Abraham. Father Abraham, speak to your sons. Tell them, No more!"

No matter how true it is in a human sense, it demotes Christ toi a mere human in many people's eyes and gives creedence to the false Judaic and Islam belief that Jesus was just a prophet.


 

[AldaForPresident]

No matter how true it is in a human sense, it demotes Christ toi a mere human in many people's eyes and gives creedence to the false Judaic and Islam belief that Jesus was just a prophet.

By acknowledging that Jesus was a Jew and Muhammad and Jesus share ancestry?

At the church I went for for over eighteen years - and I'm not nineteen yet - there were people who wouldn't even ADMIT that. (The Jesus/Muhammad connection, that is.) So I think that's who he's talking to. He's not preaching. I think it's a lot more effective to encourage tolerance and coexistence than to say "Look, Christians believe Jesus is God, and they're right, but Jews and Muslims don't and they're wrong, but hey, get along, please." That's incredibly condescending.

[PaulDA]

By acknowledging that Jesus was a Jew and Muhammad and Jesus share ancestry?

At the church I went for for over eighteen years - and I'm not nineteen yet - there were people who wouldn't even ADMIT that. (The Jesus/Muhammad connection, that is.) So I think that's who he's talking to. He's not preaching. I think it's a lot more effective to encourage tolerance and coexistence than to say "Look, Christians believe Jesus is God, and they're right, but Jews and Muslims don't and they're wrong, but hey, get along, please." That's incredibly condescending.

Without adding that Jesus is God, everyone who hears Bono's 'motto' is going to think Jesus is just a mere man.
I do not believe in religious tolerance at all.
Jesus said "If you are ashamed of Me, I will be asshamed of you".
You cannot water down the message just to get people interested.
That is a form of lying.

[Brenden]

Without adding that Jesus is God, everyone who hears BoNo's 'motto' is going to think Jesus is just a mere man.

That's their problem, Bono never said Jesus was a mere man, so I see no problem with his words.

It really isn't "watering down" since it gets across his message for people of different religions to stop hating each other and trying to kill each other.

[bloop]

You cannot water down the message just to get people interested.

The purpose isn't to get people interested, but to get people to stop killing each other.  Making a comment that would be inflammatory to 2 out of the 3 groups you are trying to calm isn't such a great idea - it's the wrong time for that kind of expression.  In order to proseletyze, the people involved have to first be willing to listen to each other.

You aren't so much making a mountain out of a molehill this time as you are making a mountain out of a rubber ducky.  Your objection is just altogether irrelevant to what the statement is.

[Josh]

Bono is watering down nothing-- he only says that Muhamed and Christ both have a common anscestor, which is not a debatable issue.

As for religious tolerance... well, gee... whatever happened to loving our enemies?

[PaulDA]

As for religious tolerance... well, gee... whatever happened to loving our enemies?

We love our enemies but we don't kiss their butts.
You don't pretend someone else's religion is peachy keen as a form of loving them.
You tell them right out, in as loving a way as possible that Jesus is God. If they won't hear the message, that is not our fault. The Holy Spirit will try and convict them. If they won't listen to Him, that is their fault not ours.

[Brenden]

We love our enemies but we don't kiss their butts.
You don't pretend someone else's religion is peachy keen as a form of loving them.
You tell them right out, in as loving a way as possible that Jesus is God. If they won't hear the message, that is not our fault. The Holy Spirit will try and convict them. If they won't listen to Him, that is their fault not ours.

And if they know you care about them, they're more likely to be receptive of that message.

[PaulDA]

We love our enemies but we don't kiss their butts.
You don't pretend someone else's religion is peachy keen as a form of loving them.
You tell them right out, in as loving a way as possible that Jesus is God. If they won't hear the message, that is not our fault. The Holy Spirit will try and convict them. If they won't listen to Him, that is their fault not ours.

And if they know you care about them, they're more likely to be receptive of that message.

But you cannot gain their trust be being deceitful! Making them think you respect their religion is deceitful. How can a Christian respect something that is from Satan?
If it is NOT from God, it is from Satan.
All religions except Christianity are false, therefore they belong to Satan.
The Bible is clear that if you are NOT Christ's, you belong to the devil.
There is no middle ground. Up until the second a person converts, they belong to Satan.

[Vlad!]

Paul, I think you're reading way more in to this than is actually there. Bono, by stating a fact, is not either elevating Islam and Judaism or lowering Christianity. Did you know that Muslims, Jews, and Christians all believe the universe was created by God? This point of commonality doesn't say anything about the relative truth of these three religions; it just means that they all start from the same position.

There are many things I disagree with Bono about, but in this case I don't think that he has gone too far. On the contrary, the only way we can accomplish the true Christian goal--the sharing of the gospel to all nations--is if we are in peaceful discourse rather than hateful conflict. By trying to encourage peacefulness and understanding, I think that Bono is doing more for this cause than those such as yourself who refuse to have anything to do with Islam because it is a false religion. Of course it's a false religion; that's why we need to be in communication--peaceful communication--to share our point of view and hopefully come to a mutual understanding of the truth.

[PaulDA]

Be that as it may, I am never going to agree with what Bono is doing in that area.
I would NEVER, even under torture, put Jesus in the same breath with that Satanic false prophet Mohammad or with Jews who deny Jesus is the Messiah.
I would rather be shot. *shrugs*. I know these message boards are full of Christians who are very liberal in their interpretaions. I can never be like that.
I am more like Dr. Dobson and other conservayive Christians.
I doubt Dr. Dobson would approve of what Bono is saying.

[PaulDA]

Anyway, I'm never going to agree with Bono's tactics. He may be super well known but that doesn't make him correct. However, I won't let that stop me from liking his music or appreciating his love for Jesus. I just feel he is wrong in this area.
Besides, the guy who originated that saying U2 never asked him for permission to use it although he thinks it is being used for good.

[AldaForPresident]

How is calling their religion "Satanic" going to endear you to Muslims or Jews? That's absurd, particularly considering Jesus was a Jew. I have never understood the mentality that allows people to try and invalidate other peoples' beliefs and then in the same breath claim to love them. "You're wrong, we're right, we love you" would absolutely not fly with me personally, and I doubt it would most Christians, so why should it work on everyone else?

Just because James Dobson is well known doesn't make him correct, either. No one suggest Bono is right because he's famous, and no one here is going to make that claim. Hitler was pretty well known, doesn't make him right about anything.

[Josh]

Paul, your thinking here is way too muddled to be taken seriously, but Jess is right in saying that your attitude-- completely devoid of Christian love-- is about as far from that of Jesus as you can get. You're making some pretty huge generalizations here, you're contradicting yourself, you're failing to offer any kind of substantial reason for believing what you believe, and you're belittling the beliefs of others... and I'm kinda tired of it.

I would ask why we can't all just get along, but you obviously have no desire to get along with anyone who believes differently from you. Which is sad.

[PaulDA]

How is calling their religion "Satanic" going to endear you to Muslims or Jews?

Where do Christians today get the idea we are supposed to water down the Gospel just to 'endear ourselves' to others?
When Jesus spoke to the multitudes he threw from the hip, no mincing of words.
John the baptist was very forthright in his message. So were Peter and paul.
"Repent and believe". They didn't go around and say "He, Aristopheles, those Greek Gods you pray to are kinda neat, but my God is neat too. Let's talk".
The reason I say Islam is Satanic is because it IS Satatnic!
Satan is using Islam today to fight Christianity. Half the world is Islamic. And the VAST majority of them, peaceful or not, are going to die and go to hell because they don't believe in Jesus Christ.
Jesus said to preach the Word and let him who has ears hear.

[PaulDA]

Paul, your thinking here is way too muddled to be taken seriously, but Jess is right in saying that your attitude-- completely devoid of Christian love-- is about as far from that of Jesus as you can get. You're making some pretty huge generalizations here, you're contradicting yourself, you're failing to offer any kind of substantial reason for believing what you believe, and you're belittling the beliefs of others... and I'm kinda tired of it.

I would ask why we can't all just get along, but you obviously have no desire to get along with anyone who believes differently from you. Which is sad.

My thinking is not muddled.
I know perfectly well what I believe.
I have had quite a few Muslim friends and if we get into discussions i tell them that jesus is the Way and that Mohammad is a false prophet. None of them have gotten angry, because they think Christianity is false anyway. And if they did get angry, that is fine. Jesus comes first before friends or family..
The great Commission is the PREACH the GOSPEL of the KINGDOM of GOD to all the world for WITNESS and then the end will come.
Not to try and bring in world peace, not to water everything down and get along with everyone, but to tell the world about Jesus Christ.
The ENTIRE Gospel message is insulting to the world. Jesus said the world will HATE us for His sake. Why do you suppose He said that?? Because we try to please everyone with nice platitudes? No, because we TELL it like it IS and let the Holy Spirit work with people once they hear the concentrated truth.

[bloop]

"He, Aristopheles, those Greek Gods you pray to are kinda neat, but my God is neat too. Let's talk".

No, he never said that, but are you aware of Paul's attempt to connect with people by using the altar to the unknown God.  It's about as blatant as anything I've seen drawing a connection between a pagan culture and the one, true religion.

(reference anyone?)

Oh, and keep Dr. Dobson out of this.  He may very well agree with you, but he hasn't expressed that, so it's faulty to use something he might say as support for yourself, not that I find Dr. Dobson to be much of an authority anyway.    

[PaulDA]

^The Bible also says that "Paul became all things to all people so that some would be saved",
but that doesn't mean he watered down the message just so "people could get along".

[Josh]

How is Bono watering down the Gospel? Isn't loving one another a pretty big part OF the Gospel?

[PaulDA]

How is Bono watering down the Gospel? Isn't loving one another a pretty big part OF the Gospel?

Any time any Christian compares Jesus Christ to another human, without adding that Jesus is God, is watering down the Gospel message in my opinion.
You don't have to agree with me, but that is how I feel.

[dgp11776]

You don't have to agree with me, but that is how I feel.

Ah, the classic "ending" of a discussion.

Better read, "I'm cornered, have no logical answers to your questions, so I'll just pretend like I know what I'm talking about and bow out."

[AldaForPresident]

Any time any Christian compares Jesus Christ to another human, without adding that Jesus is God, is watering down the Gospel message in my opinion.
You don't have to agree with me, but that is how I feel.

But that's insane. The Bible doesn't even do that. When the Bible says that Jesus spoke to other people, or went places with other people, or did anything involving other people, it doesn't have a footnote reading "But Jesus is God." That's ridiculous.

[Aaron]

Any time any Christian compares Jesus Christ to another human, without adding that Jesus is God, is watering down the Gospel message in my opinion.
You don't have to agree with me, but that is how I feel.

Have you even read the Bible?

[PaulDA]

Ah, the classic "ending" of a discussion.

Better read, "I'm cornered, have no logical answers to your questions, so I'll just pretend like I know what I'm talking about and bow out."

I'm not bowing out of anything.
I just wanted to post my point succeinctly in one sentence.
That is how i feel and I'm not going to change just because 100 people disagre with me.
If I change my mind on anything (and I have quite a bit over the last 4 years), it will be because someone or more than one person has convinced me I am wrong.
This has not happened heretofore in this thread.
Besides, You have not answered what I just said in the above post.
I said: When a person compare Jesus to another human or humans, in the same sentence, that is wrong, unless you qualify it that Jesus was infact fully man and is fully God when He came to Earth over 2000 years ago.
That is watering down the Gospel just to appease people.  

[PaulDA]

Any time any Christian compares Jesus Christ to another human, without adding that Jesus is God, is watering down the Gospel message in my opinion.
You don't have to agree with me, but that is how I feel.

But that's insane. The Bible doesn't even do that. When the Bible says that Jesus spoke to other people, or went places with other people, or did anything involving other people, it doesn't have a footnote reading "But Jesus is God." That's ridiculous.

Jesus always said who He was. He never claimed to be a mere human.
I don't know what Bible all of you are reading.

[PaulDA]

Any time any Christian compares Jesus Christ to another human, without adding that Jesus is God, is watering down the Gospel message in my opinion.
You don't have to agree with me, but that is how I feel.

Have you even read the Bible?

Yes, and the Bible proclaims Jesus as God. Jesus said He was God.
The apostles said He was God.
When Thomas kneeled before Jesus and called Him "My Lord and My God" Jesus accepted the adoration. Jesus said He is "the First and Last, the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End".  

[AldaForPresident]

Jesus always said who He was. He never claimed to be a mere human.
I don't know what Bible all of you are reading.

Please show me where I said Jesus claimed to be a "mere human." Please show me where Bono said that. Please show me where anyone in this thread said that.

You can't, because none of that happened.

Apparently you're the only one, in a thread that involves several other people, that understands the Bible. It must be a burden to be so enlightened.

[Aaron]

Any time any Christian compares Jesus Christ to another human, without adding that Jesus is God, is watering down the Gospel message in my opinion.
You don't have to agree with me, but that is how I feel.

But that's insane. The Bible doesn't even do that. When the Bible says that Jesus spoke to other people, or went places with other people, or did anything involving other people, it doesn't have a footnote reading "But Jesus is God." That's ridiculous.

Jesus always said who He was. He never claimed to be a mere human.
I don't know what Bible all of you are reading.

You're ridiculous Paul.  I don't think you understood what Alda was saying at all.  You're so stuck in your ways you don't care what any of us have said.  You just want to state your point, not argue with anyone, and not listen to what other people have to say.  People on this board and CMCentral gave sufficient scriptural support.  They used the full verses in context.  You have constantly taken stuff out of context to what you want to believe.  You are just cutting and pasting what you believe and ignoring the rest a la Thomas Jefferson.

[PaulDA]

^There is no scriptural support for comparing Jesus to other people in other religions.
Show me ONE time in the NT where Jesus or anyone else did this.

[Josh]

^There is no scriptural support for comparing Jesus to other people in other religions.
Show me ONE time in the NT where Jesus or anyone else did this.

NO ONE IS COMPARING THEM!

To say that Jesus and the Islamic Prophet(s) descend from Abraham is not a comparison. It is historical FACT.

[Brenden]

:brickwall:

I can tell this is going nowhere.

22So Paul, standing before the Council,[e] addressed them as follows: "Men of Athens, I notice that you are very religious, 23for as I was walking along I saw your many altars. And one of them had this inscription on it--`To an Unknown God.' You have been worshiping him without knowing who he is, and now I wish to tell you about him.

    24"He is the God who made the world and everything in it. Since he is Lord of heaven and earth, he doesn't live in man-made temples, 25and human hands can't serve his needs--for he has no needs. He himself gives life and breath to everything, and he satisfies every need there is. 26From one man he created all the nations throughout the whole earth. He decided beforehand which should rise and fall, and he determined their boundaries.

    27"His purpose in all of this was that the nations should seek after God and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him--though he is not far from any one of us. 28For in him we live and move and exist. As one of your own poets says, `We are his offspring.' 29And since this is true, we shouldn't think of God as an idol designed by craftsmen from gold or silver or stone. 30God overlooked people's former ignorance about these things, but now he commands everyone everywhere to turn away from idols and turn to him.[f] 31For he has set a day for judging the world with justice by the man he has appointed, and he proved to everyone who this is by raising him from the dead."

    32When they heard Paul speak of the resurrection of a person who had been dead, some laughed, but others said, "We want to hear more about this later." 33That ended Paul's discussion with them, 34but some joined him and became believers. Among them were Dionysius, a member of the Council,[g] a woman named Damaris, and others.

[murlough23]

I decided to read the first post, skip over the many pages of arguing (since we all know how useless that is with Paul before he's had a few days to sleep on it and really think about an issue), and just offer my two cents.

I'm kind of riding the fence on this issue. As much as I respect a lot of the things that Bono does, I'm not one of those people who eagerly eats up every word the man has to say. I think that he meant well here, but he kind of phrased what he was trying to say in a way that was ambiguous. I don't think that Bono actually believes in some sort of religious pluralism, but Bono is correct in making the factual observation that these three religions had the same forefather. Nothing wrong with making that observation, but just throwing that fact out there and leaving it at that is bound to stir up some controversy, because it does imply an assignment of equal status to all three belief systems. Bono's not being heretical here; he's just misunderstood, and perhaps sometimes he is a little guilty of saying the things you'd expect to hear from a harismatic crowd-pleaser. I don't expect him to get up on stage and say "Muslims are wrong and they're going to hell", obviously, but if you're going to promote peace between members of different religions, then promote peace instead of making implications about whose religion is right and wrong (in this case, that they're all right). That discussion can be had with people who voluntarily discuss it with you, not people who pay upwards of a hundred dollars to hear you play your songs.

Paul, if you'd been aware of U2's antics in the 90's, you'd have heard a lot more coming from Bono's mouth that would have pissed you off, probably more so than this. Sometimes I think he just likes to get a rise from the crowd. In any event, knowing that isn't enough to put me off of his music. I just see him as a flawed personality, like pretty much every performer... just a little more notoriously so in his case. It doesn't stop me from enjoying the songs he writes (which do reflect a lot of Biblical truths if one takes the time to understand them in their proper context), and admiring certain benevolent actions on his part. I don't have to think he's a saint to get something out of what he has to say; I take what truths are offered and dismiss the rest, as I would do with any celebrity.

If you agree that Muslims, Christians, and Jews need to stop killing each other, then you agree with the essence of what Bono is trying to convey here. Agreeing with his methods is a separate issue.

[Josh]

...but, really, no one here is all that qualified to judge Bono's methods because, with the exception of me, none of us have really heard the comment in context, where is is much clearer what Bono was trying to convey.

[PaulDA]

I'm kind of riding the fence on this issue. As much as I respect a lot of the things that Bono does, I'm not one of those people who eagerly eats up every word the man has to say. I think that he meant well here, but he kind of phrased what he was trying to say in a way that was ambiguous. I don't think that Bono actually believes in some sort of religious pluralism, but Bono is correct in making the factual observation that these three religions had the same forefather. Nothing wrong with making that observation, but just throwing that fact out there and leaving it at that is bound to stir up some controversy, because it does imply an assignment of equal status to all three belief systems. Bono's not being heretical here; he's just misunderstood, and perhaps sometimes he is a little guilty of saying the things you'd expect to hear from a harismatic crowd-pleaser. I don't expect him to get up on stage and say "Muslims are wrong and they're going to hell", obviously, but if you're going to promote peace between members of different religions, then promote peace instead of making implications about whose religion is right and wrong (in this case, that they're all right). That discussion can be had with people who voluntarily discuss it with you, not people who pay upwards of a hundred dollars to hear you play your songs.
 

Whether you know it or not, you basically have agreed with me here.

And this is one thing I am not going to change my mind on.

If you agree that Muslims, Christians, and Jews need to stop killing each other, then you agree with the essence of what Bono is trying to convey here. Agreeing with his methods is a separate issue.

Promoting 'world peace' is one of those 'PC' things like 'gun control' that sounds nice but goes nowhere.
The great commission is to preach the Gospel to all nations as a witness and then the end will come. Not to try and create world peace because the Bible is clear that ain't gonna happen until Jesus comes back and set up His government for 1,000 years, and rules with an iron fist. If world peace was going to be accomplished before Jesus returns, the Bible would have mentioned it. The Bible actually says the opposite, that wars and calamities and diseases are going to increase up until jesus comes, not get better.