A question about CCM record sales.....

[murlough23]

The average 'Christian' in this country (ie: probably most the 85% of the population here who call themselves 'Christians') don't really have much to do with anything that involves Christianity. They are the ones who support sexual R rated movies, they are the ones who buy all the CDs talking about killing cops, raping women and using expletives, they are the ones having abortions, selling and abusing drugs, living together unmarried, etc, and having no remorse for these things.
So to say they don't like CCM because of the quality is rather fallacious when you look at the whole picture.

Perhaps. And I know that the real reason you started the thread was to talk about that. Your estimate may be accurate; I honestly don't know, but it's likely. The thing is, whether or not they're listening to Christian music isn't really a good barometer for how serious they are about the Christian faith. We've all supplied perfectly good reasons why a Christian could conceivably not know much about Christian music, or know about it but choose not to listen to it. Those Christians, who are serious about their faith but do not listen to Christian music, might be an odd minority, but they exist. So if you want to complain about the moral corruption of so-called Christians in this country, go right ahead. Just realize that it honestly has very little to do with Christian music, and remember not to judge someone on the basis of whether they listen to CCM or not.

NP: "I Know Who I Am", Ashley Cleveland

[murlough23]

Just to reiterate an earlier point so that there's no confusion:

Singing about Jesus is not what bothers me. It is not an easy thing to write a song that is both eloquent and explicitly Christian, so when I hear such a song, I will usually applaud it. I'd actually prefer specificity to some sort of a vague love song that could be about God or a girlfriend.

What I dislike is the frequent use of cliches - common phrases that are used so much that we don't really have to stop and think about their meaning. There are cliches that are about Jesus, and there are cliches that are not about Jesus. There are insightful statements that are about Jesus, and there are insightful statements that are not about Jesus. I'd prefer to see an effort made to avoid the cliches while still being specific about who is being glorified. Perhaps cliches can be avoided in a song that is still very simple. I've heard it done before. But generally, what I mean by "more complex" is not "harder to understand", but "more descriptive".

Statements like "I love you", "I give my life to you", etc. have become cliches because they can be said in a context where everyone has heard them before and doesn't really have to think about the implications of those words. Saying "I love you" in a song which expounds on the reasons for that love or the way that love is expressed is a better approach. Depicting what it means to truly give one's life to Christ, or giving an example of how someone has done/is doing such a thing, is a better approach. If we just stick to the cliches without ever unpacking their meaning, that's when Christian music becomes anemic and meaningless for people who want anything out of it beyond vague warm and fuzzy feelings.

We probably have very little hope of reaching non-believers with botaloads of cliche-ridden songs - and I realize not all Christian music is directed at those outside of the church, but still, a fair amount is, or at least we expect non-Christians to give it a chance. I guess the cliche songs will draw in the touchy-feely types who don't really want to think on a deeper level... which may be the problem with a lot of the Church - we're only converting those types of people successfully, for the most part, and they become the majority membership of future churches. Just a thought there.

NP: "Reaching with His Love", Cindy Morgan

[NinjaRob17]

As did Johnny Cash.

As did Marilyn Manson.

[Aaron]

[danny316]

Gosh, our responses to some topics are so predictable.

As for CCM record sales, there are a few easy explanations:
1. Not everybody likes music that much. Sure, it's an aspect of pop culture, but do people really engage it beyond that? Not much.
2. People are ignorant and stupid. Rather than actually looking at music to make their own decisions, they'll go with what they're told. A vaguely spiritual act like Creed is most people's idea of "Christian rock". Most people who've heard of Jars of Clay incorrectly think that they're a Christian rock band (without any regard for their lack of bassist, drummer, or even electric guitarist when they put out their big "Christian rock album"). If Carrie Underwood name-checks Jesus on one song, they have enough Christian music, because they don't seek out CCM and aren't interested in going deeper than pop culture.
3. Sadly, the first two points here lead us to a stigma against CCM in the general public. Most people will claim to hate "Christian rock", even if they love P.O.D. and Switchfoot. Rather than admit that the popular attitude is incorrect, they hold the popular bands as exceptions, and keep spreading the more pessimistic ideas about CCM.
4. Even in Christian communities, it's cool to be beyond CCM, moving on to less commercial spiritual music. (Do I need to point to Josh?) To be fair, loud, preachy, and anthemic music can be a bit too "youth groupy" sometimes.
5. Actually, some Christian music isn't that good. Sooner or later, quality has to be a factor, although admittedly only with music snobs, and not all CCM fails here.
6. Sometimes it all sounds the same, and that bothers frickin' everybody. Do we need one more version of "I Could Sing of Your Love Forever"? Really?

Why do I feel like I should have 89 more ideas?

[PaulDA]

Do we need one more version of "I Could Sing of Your Love Forever"? Really?
 

Yes. I am one of the millions of people who loves it when artists cover these worship songs over and over. I love to hear different verions of songs I like.
Many times I like cover versions better than new songs.
That's why Christmas songs are so popular, that's why movie sequels are so popular, That's why TV shows with the same plots and characters week after week are popular.
Millions of people like familiar things.

[NinjaRob17]

[murlough23]

Yes. I am one of the millions of people who loves it when artists cover these worship songs over and over. I love to hear different verions of songs I like.
Many times I like cover versions better than new songs.
That's why Christmas songs are so popular, that's why movie sequels are so popular, That's why TV shows with the same plots and characters week after week are popular.
Millions of people like familiar things.

That's the way it is with a lot of people... but is that the way it should be? I think the average person is lazy and doesn't want to think. As a Christian, we shouldn't aspire to be like that... especially when it comes to glorifying God.

[BennieM]

Yes. I am one of the millions of people who loves it when artists cover these worship songs over and over. I love to hear different verions of songs I like.
Many times I like cover versions better than new songs.
That's why Christmas songs are so popular, that's why movie sequels are so popular, That's why TV shows with the same plots and characters week after week are popular.
Millions of people like familiar things.

That's the way it is with a lot of people... but is that the way it should be? I think the average person is lazy and doesn't want to think. As a Christian, we shouldn't aspire to be like that... especially when it comes to glorifying God.

True. But, then again, I don't consider attempts at reperforming Handel's Messiah to be lazy. It depends on whether your heart is in it and on whether what your heart is in, is good art to begin with.

[murlough23]

True. But, then again, I don't consider attempts at reperforming Handel's Messiah to be lazy. It depends on whether your heart is in it and on whether what your heart is in, is good art to begin with.

Sure. And not all movie sequels, album sequels, or remakes of other people's songs are bad ideas. It comes down to the intent, and unfortunately the bottom line for a lot of those is $$$$$.

Also, in terms of people's response to all of the remakes and sequels... the re-performance of Handel's Messiah should be loved by people if it's well-done and true to the spirit of the original, not just because it's any old version of something that's familiar to them.

[BennieM]

Sure. And not all movie sequels, album sequels, or remakes of other people's songs are bad ideas. It comes down to the intent, and unfortunately the bottom line for a lot of those is $$$$$.

Also, in terms of people's response to all of the remakes and sequels... the re-performance of Handel's Messiah should be loved by people if it's well-done and true to the spirit of the original, not just because it's any old version of something that's familiar to them.

Definitely!

[murlough23]

So what we've got here, then, is an issue of a lot of people (potentially most of them) only wanting what's familiar. You could srgue that it's human nature, and sure, if I enjoyed the original version of something, I might be willing to look into a sequel or remake of it, though I wouldn't expect it to be awesome just by virtue of the thing it's named after. As far as entertainment goes, I don't know that it's bad to like what's familiar... but I think that it is bad to seek out only that. My main thesis here - and probably the fundamental point on which Paul and I disagree - is that the way people entertain themselves says a lot about who they are in general. Seeking only what is within one's comfort zone in terms of entertainment, and not wanting to broaden one's horizons, often matches up with a general unwillingness to explore the new and unfamiliar. And people who refuse contact with the unfamiliar really have no business trying to have a meaningful relationship with God. (OK, well, God still loves 'em and they can try, but they probably ain't gonna get very far.)