what are you listening to?

[Aaron]

John Reuben is in that 1%, IMO.  He's one of the only tolerable pop-rap artists. 

[murlough23]

John Reuben is in that 1%, IMO.  He's one of the only tolerable pop-rap artists. 

So then what would you say to people like Mars Ill who are unfairly slagging all of it?

NP: "Godspeed", Anberlin

[Aaron]

We all make lump assumptions in our lives.  They have their opinion and right to say it.  It doesn't change my opinion of them as my favorite hip-hop group.  I wouldn't really know for sure unless I talked to Dust or manCHILD

[murlough23]

We all make lump assumptions in our lives.

And they're pretty much always wrong. There are always counterexamples. And I'd be fine with them criticizing the genre if the could acknowledge that some decent work was being done within it, but instead they come across as purist snobs who got pissed that someone put raisins in their oatmeal. Boo freaking hoo, some people like to experiment with mixing styles. Get used to it.

NP: "Inevitable", Anberlin

[Aaron]

I doubt they have a problem with mixing styles, just the people who are doing that usually suck.

[Josh Powell]

The Innocence Mission - Sorry And Glad Together

[cowdude]

I wonder what they think of John Reuben. He's kind of pop-rap.

Hm, I still don't know if that's the kind of rap they're talking about. John Reuben is quite a bit different then the artist they mentioned.

Currently listening to: "Less Than You Think" by Wilco

[bloop]

I doubt they have a problem with mixing styles, just the people who are doing that usually suck.

I don't have a problem with the generalized statement that it's generally not worth people's while.  Make exceptions where necessary, but the meat of such a statement strikes me as being pretty accurate.

[dgp11776]

I don't have a problem with the generalized statement that it's generally not worth people's while.  Make exceptions where necessary, but the meat of such a statement strikes me as being pretty accurate.

It would kind of make a song a little less catchy to say that "pop-rap is lousy, except for Reuben."

[murlough23]

It would kind of make a song a little less catchy to say that "pop-rap is lousy, except for Reuben."

As Derek Webb would say, "the truth is nearly impossible to rhyme".

But when you have that much space for words, that kind of ceases to be a good excuse. It's not like I expect them to list all of the exceptions. I just think the song could have been written better, to more clearly state that they dislike the commercialism and not the genre mixing in and of itself. Some of the things they mentioned are just a result of artists trying different things; it's not always commercialism and a perceived need to hook the audience with something familiar and inane.

NP: "Like a Wave", Rosanne Cash

[bloop]

to more clearly state that they dislike the commercialism and not the genre mixing in and of itself.

Strange, though, that I took the song precisely this way.  Well, that and the shallowness of the world view evident in so many of the artists in question (in that way, very similar to an argument against the image-driven glam rock of the 80s). 

I figure that those artists that should take it to heart won't, and those that shouldn't will get that it's not really capturing what they do anyway.  I'd rather hear the reaction from a few good pop-rap, or maybe, like, both good rap-rock artists to determine if there is really any miscommunication going on here.  From where I am, I find it a pretty clear, and sadly accurate, indictment of much that is wrong within the genre.

[Josh Powell]

np: We Walked In Song - Brotherhood Of Man "The Innocence Mission"

[murlough23]

or maybe, like, both good rap-rock artists

All two of them, huh?

I like the idea of that genre even though I've heard it executed poorly on many occasions. I've always kind of been that way about certain genres - I'll still be a fan even when they go out of style.

[bloop]

There are few genres for which I don't at least like the idea, and rap-rock is no exception.

[bloop]

np:  "Pharoh's Dance", Miles Davis from Bitches Brew

[Josh Powell]

np: Over The Rhine - Latter Days "Discount Fireworks"

[dgp11776]

np:  "Pharoh's Dance", Miles Davis from Bitches Brew

Can't go wrong with that artist or that album.

[murlough23]

There are few genres for which I don't at least like the idea, and rap-rock is no exception.

Which you'll just have to accept is your own limitation.

[bloop]

Which you'll just have to accept is your own limitation.

Huh?  I said I like the idea of the style. 

Maybe I screwed up the sentence?  *reads it*.  Hmm, don't see where.  I guess it was strangely worded, though.

Can't go wrong with that artist or that album.

Interesting thing is my best friend in high school hated that album, considering it almost an abandonment of the jazz genre.  I like this kind of jazz fusion, though.  Apropos, no?

[murlough23]

Huh?  I said I like the idea of the style.

Maybe I screwed up the sentence?  *reads it*.  Hmm, don't see where.  I guess it was strangely worded, though.

Oh, you meant to say that it's rare that there's a genre that you think is a bad idea. I thought you were trying to indicate that there were a few which you thought were bad ideas, and the one in question was one of them. Totally not your fault, but my mind slammed an "a" an there and it totally made the sentence read differently. Sorry. It didn't seem like you to just dismiss a whole genre like that, so I should have known I was reading it wrong.

[cowdude]

"Forever" by Edison Glass

I really like this Cd.

[Josh Powell]

np: Travis - Side "The Invisible Band"

[bloop]

"Ankle Injuries", Fujiya & Miyagi.  Amusing.

[murlough23]

I forgot to mention that I listened to Danielson's Ships last week for the first time... which will also be the last. It's one of those cases where I can't criticize them for trying to do something different, but I just can't handle the vocal style. I won't say that you guys didn't warn me about that (I've heard scattered tracks from Danielson's older catalogue such as "Potty Mouth" and "Idiot Boksen", so I kind of knew that to be the case anyway). I just figured it was worth a try, and in the end, it goes in the "Just Not for Me" category.

Danielson, along with Donald Fagen, prompted me to add a "Just Don't Get It, So I Can't Rate It" category to my 2006 Music Journals. That way I can keep stuff listed that I can't give a letter grade to with good conscience, but can't keep under "Digesting" because I know I have no intention of ever listening to it again. I wanted to be able to differentiate between music that I can't say anything bad about because I know my dislike is largely just a matter of personal taste, and music where I know enough about the genre/artist to say it's done poorly and give it a low letter grade.

NP: "Let Your Mercy Rain", Chris Tomlin

[Aaron]

Well murlough, as a Danielson fan I can respect your opinion.  it's better than most people who would say "they suck" out of pure unintelligence. 

[murlough23]

Well murlough, as a Danielson fan I can respect your opinion.  it's better than most people who would say "they suck" out of pure unintelligence. 

I can tell that what they do is intentional, so as much as the vocals grate, it's not because they can't sing, it's because of how they choose to sing.  If I liked the record for other reasons and were reviewing it, I might ding them a couple points for getting on my nerves with the vocals. I do that with other bands. But I accept that they're trying a creative approach and choose to not assign a rating, because if I did so based on my enjoyment, it would be an extreemly low rating that doesn't fairly reflect their attempt to be creative. What they do seems to serve the song. Compare that to some other singers who are trying to sing more normally but whose voices are still irritating or off-key or whatever, I might look more harshly on those singers for that. (Like Brandon Flowers, for example.)

[Aaron]

I agree with you wholeheartedly about Mr. Flowers.  At times he is good, and at times, he tries too hard.

As far as Danielson, if it was only Daniel Smith singing the whole time on every album, I wouldn't like it but he incorporates so many musicians it works well.

[murlough23]

As far as Danielson, if it was only Daniel Smith singing the whole time on every album, I wouldn't like it but he incorporates so many musicians it works well.

Sure. I'm willing to bet that some people find Sufjan Stevens and his hosts of exuberant backup singers to be annoying, too.

[Aaron]

Then we get all Stephen Colbert and mock them mercilessly.

[Aaron]

"Dead Leaves On The Dirty Ground" - Chris Thile.

This version of The White Stripes song is kick-ass.  Thile and friends turn this into a great bluegrass song.

[murlough23]

"Dead Leaves On The Dirty Ground" - Chris Thile.

This version of The White Stripes song is kick-ass.  Thile and friends turn this into a great bluegrass song.

I love that one, too - my only qualm with it (and many spots on the album) is when Chris's voice gets so hushed it's hard to hear what he's singing.

[murlough23]

I decided to check out Lost Ocean's self-titled album. Also on the docket to be listened to shortly are Barenaked Ladies Are Men and Meg & Dia's Something Real.

NP: "Believe", Lost Ocean

[Josh Powell]

murlough23, I thought the same way one or two times through, but after a few listens his voice really grew on me and know I actually kinda like it.

np: L.A. Symphony - Put Up or Shut Up "Disappear Here"

[murlough23]

murlough23, I thought the same way one or two times through, but after a few listens his voice really grew on me and know I actually kinda like it.

yeah, but space on my hard drive is scarce and there's already not enough to fully digest the stuff I'm really interested, so it's already been deleted. The deal is, I won't make fun of or criticize Danielson if nobody tries to make me listen to them again.

NP: "Adelaide", Anberlin

[enemy anemone]

awhile back I had downloaded a recording of the Ditty Bops performing (and doing a shadow puppet show) at KCRW but hadn't listened to it till now. their music is pretty cool, and they change things enough in live performances to keep them interesting. how can you not love pioneers in radio shadow puppetry? they're performing tonight at one of my favorite venues, McCabes, but I heard it's sold out, and besides, I have to work. hopefully I'll be able to catch a show one of these days.

[murlough23]

I'm confuzzled, how do you listen to radio shadow puppets?

NP: "There Is a Light Which Never Goes Out", Anberlin

[enemy anemone]

it was a joke. they did do shadow puppets in the studio though, which viewers of the streaming video could watch. Nic Harcourt even admitted "it was kind of fun". (I don't really care for Nic; he doesn't seem to have a sense of humor.)

anyway, I wonder if you would like some of their music. the instruments they use are mostly acoustic (as far as I know) but the overall sound is pretty layered and not sparse like many of the other artists I listen to. their harmonies make me think a little of Eisley, plus they're local to LA, and references to the city show up in some of their songs, which is always fun. and Sara Watkins likes 'em (they've done some songs together at Watkins Family Hour shows) and everybody loves Sara Watkins, right? =)

[Aaron]

ooh me me!

[murlough23]

anyway, I wonder if you would like some of their music. the instruments they use are mostly acoustic (as far as I know) but the overall sound is pretty layered and not sparse like many of the other artists I listen to. their harmonies make me think a little of Eisley, plus they're local to LA, and references to the city show up in some of their songs, which is always fun. and Sara Watkins likes 'em (they've done some songs together at Watkins Family Hour shows) and everybody loves Sara Watkins, right? =)

Love, unfortunately, does not always exhibit transitive properties.

But I'll make a note to check 'em out all the same.

[enemy anemone]

(I was being facetious, though I do count myself among those who can't help but love Sara Watkins.)