Battlestar Galactica

[AldaForPresident]

Well, my birthday is early next month so hopefully someone who cares will get me season two. My grandmother asked me what I wanted yesterday so I wrote down I wanted season two of Battlestar Galactica. She was confused about how to pronounce it, but she can always just show the people at the store.

Didn't watch any more episodes last night- I'm trying to stretch it out. 

[AldaForPresident]

I finished season one today even though I tried my best not to. Okay, wow, what a cliffhanger. That's ONE thing I didn't know in advance! I thought it was interesting how the season finale (both parts) had a sort of mournful tone to it, or maybe resigned would be a better word. Which is appropriate to me, because after almost two months of such nonsense I would sure as hell feel and act defeated, too. (It kind of reminded me of the second part of season two of Lost, when they had roughly been on the island for two months.)

I continue to side with President Roslin in all of the Adama/Roslin conflicts, as hokey as her reasoning was. I might've been on his side had he not decided to declare martial law or whatever his plan was. Apollo, however, is still stupid. Get off my side, Apollo!

(I was talking about the show with one of my best friends who kind of watches it on and off, and she pointed out a resemblance between Mary McDonnell and one of our English teachers in high school who we all HATED, and I said "Thanks a lot, you've ruined President Roslin for me!" I was mostly kidding, but as superficial as that is, it's a testament to how great of an actress Mary McDonnell is and how well her character is written that I still love her. She should have an Emmy for her work on this show.)

I hope the rest of the Cylons are as likeable (to me) as Six and Sharon are. Helo, go be an asshole somewhere else. And I liked him before, too.

[murlough23]

I finished season one today even though I tried my best not to. Okay, wow, what a cliffhanger. That's ONE thing I didn't know in advance!

Yeah, even though I was spoiled for so much, I didn't see the shooting of Adama coming. I figured Sharon would get revealed to be a Cylon somehow, but man, not like that.

The funny thing was that in Part 1 of the finale, I was thinking, someone major always dies in a season finale, and Sharon's a character you can kill since we have two of 'em so certainly one of 'em is gonna die. Then they made it look like both would die in that awesome teaser, and then neither of 'em did! Creepy when Baltar was trying to convince Galactica Sharon to pull the trigger, though, then the door slams, silence as he walks down the hall, then BANG.

And then they blew up all those naked Sharons in part two. Awesome.

The nakedness reminds me - Six gets naked all the frakkin' time, we've seen naked Sharon's, you'll see another naked female Cylon in season three... how come the male Cylons are never naked? Not that I really want to see it, but you know, this so is so egalitarian about everything else.

I hope the rest of the Cylons are as likeable (to me) as Six and Sharon are. Helo, go be an asshole somewhere else. And I liked him before, too.

You like Doral and Leoben, too? Leoben's a creepy motherfrakker. You'll meet some more potentially creepy Cylons in Season Two - new models and different copies of existing ones.

[AldaForPresident]

You like Doral and Leoben, too? Leoben's a creepy motherfrakker. You'll meet some more potentially creepy Cylons in Season Two - new models and different copies of existing ones.

Don't really see a lot of Doral yet, but I like him okay. I actually DO like Leoben, if only because he's so creepy. He reminds me of Ethan.

[AldaForPresident]

My grandmother gave me the first set of season two DVDs as an early birthday gift today, and I just watched the first two episodes. It was a bit of a struggle at first to remember where everyone was and why, but I really love how they managed to incorporate everyone into both episodes, even if it does mean less screen time for some of my favorites. I liked Scattered better than Valley of Darkness, but if the latter didn't make me like Apollo and Starbuck, at least for now. I can't decide whether or not I'm pissed at Tigh or a fan of his right now. Both, if possible.

[murlough23]

My grandmother gave me the first set of season two DVDs as an early birthday gift today, and I just watched the first two episodes. It was a bit of a struggle at first to remember where everyone was and why, but I really love how they managed to incorporate everyone into both episodes, even if it does mean less screen time for some of my favorites. I liked Scattered better than Valley of Darkness, but if the latter didn't make me like Apollo and Starbuck, at least for now. I can't decide whether or not I'm pissed at Tigh or a fan of his right now. Both, if possible.

Valley of Darkness was kind of the BSG version of a horror flick. Pulse-pounding, but ultimately not one of BSG's standout episodes when you think about it after the fact. I kind of got tired of Kara's apartment and the endless piano fugue in that one.

Fragged is intense. Plenty of interesting messed-up-ness to go around in that episode, so you'll hopefully have fun with it.

Check out the deleted scenes for Scattered and Valley of Darkness when you get the chance - they cut out a ton of scenes that kind of made it like a Tigh-centric episode of Lost.

[AldaForPresident]

Just watched Fragged and Resistance and really loved them both. Resistance is one of the best so far for me. President Roslin is awesome. Apollo was awesome in Resistance, too. Stupid, stupid Tigh. Until Fragged I had managed to, at best, like him in spite of his many, many flaws, and at worst had a love/hate relationship with the character, but for now it's just hate. (And as much as I despise Ellen at this point, blaming her for his stupidity sucks.)

And Cally! I wanted to tear my hair out. Will they just leave the Cylons alone? It also annoyed the crap, or frak, as it were, out of me whenever she was threatening Baltar. He's the Vice President! And he saved her life! Geez. But I loved that whole conversation, mostly because of Six's comments about the "racial" slurs. Hee.

I like Sharon a lot but I thought the scene in the cell with Baltar was great. It's so rare to see Baltar in control of a situation like that and keeping his composure. Such a good episode. Now I need to go watch more.

[murlough23]

Just watched Fragged and Resistance and really loved them both. Resistance is one of the best so far for me. President Roslin is awesome. Apollo was awesome in Resistance, too. Stupid, stupid Tigh. Until Fragged I had managed to, at best, like him in spite of his many, many flaws, and at worst had a love/hate relationship with the character, but for now it's just hate. (And as much as I despise Ellen at this point, blaming her for his stupidity sucks.)

I think that all serves to back up Tigh's reasoning for not wanting command of a battlestar. He works better as an XO who can do the dirty work that makes people hate him without frakking the whole thing up because there's still a CO above him to handle the public relations. I love him as a character, but yeah, he seriously messed things up there.

And Cally! I wanted to tear my hair out. Will they just leave the Cylons alone?

Why should they leave the Cylons alone? This is war, and the Cylons started it. (Or did they?)

But I agree that ally shouldn't have shot Sharon. That was a rash and stupid thing to do, like when Charlie shot Ethan on Lost. They could have gotten valuable information from her, which is what Baltar was attempting to do. Though Sharon doesn't appear to know everything about the Cylons, so who knows.

Anyway, Cylons resurrect. It should be no surprise that you'll see that particular Sharon again.

It also annoyed the crap, or frak, as it were, out of me whenever she was threatening Baltar. He's the Vice President! And he saved her life! Geez. But I loved that whole conversation, mostly because of Six's comments about the "racial" slurs. Hee.

I forgot what that whole confrontation was even about. Cally is a bit rash on several occasions, but I kind of like her for that because she doesn't take any crap from anyone.

I like Sharon a lot but I thought the scene in the cell with Baltar was great. It's so rare to see Baltar in control of a situation like that and keeping his composure. Such a good episode. Now I need to go watch more.

Let me know when you get to Final Cut; that's one of my favorites because it's so unorthodox.

NP: "A Kiss to Send Us Off", Incubus

[AldaForPresident]

Why should they leave the Cylons alone? This is war, and the Cylons started it.

Yes, but who made the Cylons?

(Or did they?)

Dun dun DUN!!!

I forgot what that whole confrontation was even about. Cally is a bit rash on several occasions, but I kind of like her for that because she doesn't take any crap from anyone.

She basically wanted Baltar to clear the Chief of speculation that he was a Cylon because of his relationship with Sharon, or else Cally would tell everyone that Baltar shot Crashdown. My annoyance with this stems from the fact that when Baltar shot Crashdown, he had a gun pointed at Cally. I wouldn't suggest Baltar did anything out of selflessness, but still.

I watched both parts of Home the night before last. I had been wondering all along how they were going to do the arrow of Apollo/tomb of Athena thing and not make it completely hokey and stupid, and while I was still surprised at how literal it was- the arrow sparked or snapped or something and all of a sudden they knew where Earth was, I still thought it was cool. I think it's interesting that almost everyone we've seen so far believes in the gods on some level, even people I personally wouldn't think would.

[murlough23]

Yes, but who made the Cylons?

The humans. It doesn't matter. If someone's attacking you, you do what you can to defend yourself. I'm willing to buy that the Cylons don't want to be slave machines or whatever and should be treated equally to humans if they're going to co-exist peacefully... but tell the Cylons about that co-existing peacefully part.

She basically wanted Baltar to clear the Chief of speculation that he was a Cylon because of his relationship with Sharon, or else Cally would tell everyone that Baltar shot Crashdown. My annoyance with this stems from the fact that when Baltar shot Crashdown, he had a gun pointed at Cally. I wouldn't suggest Baltar did anything out of selflessness, but still.

Cally values her own life, but she also values Tyrol's. That's an important bit of information about her as a character. She may be going about trying to protect him in the wrong way, but she's a bit desperate right now.

I watched both parts of Home the night before last. I had been wondering all along how they were going to do the arrow of Apollo/tomb of Athena thing and not make it completely hokey and stupid, and while I was still surprised at how literal it was- the arrow sparked or snapped or something and all of a sudden they knew where Earth was, I still thought it was cool. I think it's interesting that almost everyone we've seen so far believes in the gods on some level, even people I personally wouldn't think would.

I love that in a later episode, Racetrack refers to what they saw in the tomb as a "half-assed planetarium show".

The whole human gods vs. Cylon God thing is really interesting - I thought it was one of the weakest and most confusing aspects of the series when it started, but they've really done some interesting things with it. I'm wondering if, at some point, the human gods will be revealed to simply be highly revered ancestors (the ones who first fled from Kobol or something), and the Cylon God will be revealed to be an idea planted in their heads by a rebellious human who hated the whole Kobol religion or something. Just a wild speculation.

NP: "Do You Think I'm Pretty?", He Is Legend

[AldaForPresident]

I finished the first part of season two today, and given that my grandmother also drew my name for Christmas and has the second part somewhere in her possession, I intend to call and beg her to let me watch it now because I can't wait.

That Entertainment Weekly cover story from a couple months back has turned out to really be a mixed blessing- on the one hand, it's what pushed my intrigue about the show over the edge, but on the other, it was so full of spoilers; some of them I haven't recalled immediately, but others stuck in my mind, like Lucy Lawless is a Cylon. So the ending of Final Cut didn't have the impact it should've had, but I still loved it. It struck me as an homage to The Interview, one of the best episodes of M*A*S*H. I need to listen to the commentary to see if it's mentioned, because it's very uncanny.

Pegasus is definitely one of the most affecting episodes I've seen yet. Admiral Cain SUCKS. She's kind of two-dimensional right now, but she still SUCKS. I really don't think she's a Cylon; she's not awesome enough to be a Cylon. Speaking of which, I was upset and disturbed by the treatment of Six and Sharon. That sucks, too. Stupid Admiral Cain. Kind of weird to see such a cardboard villain on this show- I mean, c'mon, I root for the bad guys on here 80% of the time- but I haven't seen much of her, so I'm betting she either gets a bit more complex or just dies really fast. And I'm fine either way.

The humans. It doesn't matter. If someone's attacking you, you do what you can to defend yourself. I'm willing to buy that the Cylons don't want to be slave machines or whatever and should be treated equally to humans if they're going to co-exist peacefully... but tell the Cylons about that co-existing peacefully part.

All true, and that's why I said I only root for the Cylons 80% of the time. But really, I always go back to Adama's speech in the miniseries- you can't play God and then wash your hands of what you created. (Did he say "God" instead of "gods"? I can't remember.) Obviously if I were one of the survivors of such a holocaust I would hate the Cylons, too, though. It's much easier to be able to examine both sides.

The whole human gods vs. Cylon God thing is really interesting - I thought it was one of the weakest and most confusing aspects of the series when it started, but they've really done some interesting things with it. I'm wondering if, at some point, the human gods will be revealed to simply be highly revered ancestors (the ones who first fled from Kobol or something), and the Cylon God will be revealed to be an idea planted in their heads by a rebellious human who hated the whole Kobol religion or something. Just a wild speculation.

Those ideas are a big part of what I love about the show. It would really drag things down for me if the Cylons were just attacking just to be attacking; my friend who watches sporadically has also watched the original series and she said in it the Cylons just randomly wanted to obliterate the human race. I don't even see a point to that unless pure sugar-coated escapism is all you want in a TV show, because life is never that black and white. Everyone has to be motivated by something.

[murlough23]

That Entertainment Weekly cover story from a couple months back has turned out to really be a mixed blessing- on the one hand, it's what pushed my intrigue about the show over the edge, but on the other, it was so full of spoilers; some of them I haven't recalled immediately, but others stuck in my mind, like Lucy Lawless is a Cylon. So the ending of Final Cut didn't have the impact it should've had, but I still loved it.

My being spoiled was my own fault; I read some articles at battlestarwiki.org that I shouldn't have read. Like you, I still loved Final Cut due to the unorthodox approach. It's fun seeing characters like Gaeta let loose a little bit, and then of course there's Kat's whole talking-out-of-her-ass incident. Kat cracks me up.

It struck me as an homage to The Interview, one of the best episodes of M*A*S*H. I need to listen to the commentary to see if it's mentioned, because it's very uncanny.

I don't recall it being mentioned, but it's been a while since I listened to the podcast (they just take RDM's podcasts and put them on the DVD in synch with the episode, in case you hadn't already figured out the reason for the extremely low-tech approach to the DVD commentaries).

Pegasus is definitely one of the most affecting episodes I've seen yet. Admiral Cain SUCKS. She's kind of two-dimensional right now, but she still SUCKS. I really don't think she's a Cylon; she's not awesome enough to be a Cylon.

I don't even think that should be open for debate, or anything that the show wanted us to wonder. I'm not spoiling anything for you by saying that SHE'S NOT A CYLON.

I think it's interesting to have a human who also serves as a villian, though, even if she's an obvious villian. The thing is that, as harsh as she and her crew are, they've been through hell and barely survived, and are convinced they're doing what they need to do in order to survive. I think Sharon raises the issue in a later episode - or maybe you already saw it, I can't remember - of whether it's OK to just do what's necessary to survive, or whether you have to be worthy of survival. She might be paraphrasing something Adama said early on in the series. I can't recall at the moment. But that's what Cain and her crew are there to illustrate - this big bad hi-tech ship appears and rejoins the Fleet, and hallelujah, now they're all much more protected, only to find out that humans can be their own worst enemies at times. Lost has played with this theme, too, particularly in its first season when The Others were mostly shadowy unknowns and the rest threat to the Losties was each other.

I thought it was brave of BSG to deal with the rape issue, particularly with the tricky issue of Sharon and Gina (that's the name of the abused Six copy; I don't think it ever gets spoken onscreen) being Cylons. If you believe an enemy to be subhuman, does that make inhumane torture OK? That's probably one of the few sticky moral issues where I think the show has pretty clearly said, "No, it's not". But it's funny how that works - rape generally still leaves a person a live. And plenty of lives have been terminated (granted, in more immediate and less torturous ways) by both sides here. So it's interesting how the killing is less disturbing to us, likely because the person doesn't have to live haunted by demons of being killed, like they do when they are raped.

Oh wait... the Cylons do have to live with the memory of being killed! Aw snap!

All true, and that's why I said I only root for the Cylons 80% of the time. But really, I always go back to Adama's speech in the miniseries- you can't play God and then wash your hands of what you created. (Did he say "God" instead of "gods"? I can't remember.) Obviously if I were one of the survivors of such a holocaust I would hate the Cylons, too, though. It's much easier to be able to examine both sides.

I think "God" was a slip on Olmos' part there, or the script writers didn't catch it. I guess it could be read as "god" with a lower "g", but then it should be a god, but you can refer to playing other roles without there having to be only one of those roles, so I don't know. "Play gods" would have just been awkward.

That reminds me, I find the Colonials' method of swearing (motherfrakker, gods dammit, etc.) to be highly amusing. It's cable, so they don't need the censors anyway, but this gives them the option of allowing the dialogue to remain intact if the show were ever to be syndicated on, say, NBC.

Those ideas are a big part of what I love about the show. It would really drag things down for me if the Cylons were just attacking just to be attacking; my friend who watches sporadically has also watched the original series and she said in it the Cylons just randomly wanted to obliterate the human race. I don't even see a point to that unless pure sugar-coated escapism is all you want in a TV show, because life is never that black and white. Everyone has to be motivated by something.

All villians need to have a reason for what they're doing, preferably one that makes them think they're the ones doing the right thing. Villians doing bad stuff just to be eee-vil are never all that interesting (unless it's for comedy's sake). People get their ideas of right and wrong twisted. The villians who are the most interesting to me are the ones whom I could see myself becoming under more extreme circumstances where I might be tempted to not exercise good judgment. People who thought they were doing what they had to do and can't see where they went horribly wrong. The Cylons being so devoutly religious seemed really stupid to me at first, but it's given them enough of a self-contained sense of feeling "right" that it's really creepy to me. I think there's a message in that, and that's why the Cylons' religion is the one which most closely resembles typical Western religion - having the right doctrine doesn't automatically mean that you'll apply the right morals. Sometimes the people who believe totally pagan stuff or believe in no god at all embarass us by outshining us in the areas of morality where we're supposed to excel. I'm willing to bet that the actual teachings of the "Cylon God" doesn't endorse that sort of widespread killing and terrorism, and the Cylons have just bastardized this faith into something very cultish and frightening.

In other news - and I say this without spoiling anything for you - I think I'm going to have to put Starbuck and Apollo on my #1 list of "antagonistic TV couples with tons of Unresolved Sexual Tension that you really don't want to see get together even though you know the show is leading you to anticipate exactly that". #2 on that list is Matt and Harriet from Studio 60, shortly followed by Jack and Kate from Lost (who fell down the list because of the whole Sawyer thing).

NP: "By and By", Jennifer Knapp

[AldaForPresident]

I don't even think that should be open for debate, or anything that the show wanted us to wonder. I'm not spoiling anything for you by saying that SHE'S NOT A CYLON.

I am automatically suspiscious of every new character introduced, and even some of the established characters, even though the show probably doesn't want me to be. 

I think it's interesting to have a human who also serves as a villian, though, even if she's an obvious villian. The thing is that, as harsh as she and her crew are, they've been through hell and barely survived, and are convinced they're doing what they need to do in order to survive.

After watching Resurrection Ship- I talk my grandmother into going ahead and giving me my Christmas present- I saw what you're talking about, and although I was relieved when Cain was killed (rather awesomely), I even grew to like her a little, which was weird. The "Don't flinch" talk with Starbuck was what did it, I think. Both parts of Resurrection Ship were so, so, so good.

That reminds me, I find the Colonials' method of swearing (motherfrakker, gods dammit, etc.) to be highly amusing.

Every time someone says godsdammit or godsdamn I crack up. That's such a funny way to get around the censors.

All villians need to have a reason for what they're doing, preferably one that makes them think they're the ones doing the right thing. Villians doing bad stuff just to be eee-vil are never all that interesting (unless it's for comedy's sake). People get their ideas of right and wrong twisted. The villians who are the most interesting to me are the ones whom I could see myself becoming under more extreme circumstances where I might be tempted to not exercise good judgment. People who thought they were doing what they had to do and can't see where they went horribly wrong.

Word. I can't imagine finding this show (or any show, really) remotely watchable if the villains were just evil because they ARE. What makes the Cylons the best part of the show for me isn't their need to wipe humanity off the map, but why they want to. One of my favorite moments was when Six and Doral were on Caprica and Six said that if the Cylons are humanity's children, then they've just destroyed their parents. Those layers are my favorite part of the show.

In other news - and I say this without spoiling anything for you - I think I'm going to have to put Starbuck and Apollo on my #1 list of "antagonistic TV couples with tons of Unresolved Sexual Tension that you really don't want to see get together even though you know the show is leading you to anticipate exactly that". #2 on that list is Matt and Harriet from Studio 60, shortly followed by Jack and Kate from Lost (who fell down the list because of the whole Sawyer thing).

Hee. I watch all of those shows, and I think the most annoying to me would be Jack and Kate, followed very closely by Starbuck and Apollo. (Matt and Harriet don't bother me; Jordan and Danny is a far worse coupling in my opinion.) I actually thought they were finally going to get it over with in Scar. Blah. The thing is, I've learned to like Starbuck and Apollo a little, but independently of each other. They're okay as friends, but the love interested thing is so contrived. The Apollo/Dualla thing really came out of nowhere to me, but I can live with it, I suppose. The last three episode I've watched (Black Market, Scar, Sacrifice) have been lacking to me for some reason; I guess the combination of the focus on Apollo and Starbuck (I don't think I'll ever be crazy about either one of them) and the greatness of the episodes just before them led me to feel a tad disappointed. They all had their redeeming points, though. And like I said, the first few episodes of the second half of season two were far more awesome than I could've ever predicted.

[murlough23]

I am automatically suspiscious of every new character introduced, and even some of the established characters, even though the show probably doesn't want me to be. 

When you finally get caught up, I'll have to show you the "Cylon Agent Speculation" page on BattlestarWiki. It's got a fairly extensive list of characters who could possibly be Cylons, and characters who have reasonably been ruled out. We know that no Cylon is a copy of a human being (i.e. there was no "original" Sharon Valerii who was human), and we know that Cylon infiltration (the skinjobs) was fairly recent, so certain people like William Adama whose presence before that can be vouched for by others are safe from speculation. Cain and Adama went back reasonably far, so that's a fairly safe way of ruling her out.

Incidentally, Michelle Forbes (who played Cain) showed up on Boston Legal last night as a formidable enemy lawyer in an ugly civil case. Gotta love how that show keeps picking up various Trek alums (Forbes played Ensign Ro on Star Trek: The Next Generation, and that role was originally intended to continue and become one of the leads on Deep Space Nine, but she didn't want to do a full-time series, so the character of Major Kira was created instead).

Plus, now she's dead, and dead characters are automatically ruled out unless seen again at a point later in the timeline (thus far I don't believe they've used this scheme to reveal that someone is a Cylon).

After watching Resurrection Ship- I talk my grandmother into going ahead and giving me my Christmas present- I saw what you're talking about, and although I was relieved when Cain was killed (rather awesomely), I even grew to like her a little, which was weird. The "Don't flinch" talk with Starbuck was what did it, I think. Both parts of Resurrection Ship were so, so, so good.

I thought you'd enjoy Cain's death, especially at the hands of a copy of Six. It's so weird how the show sets you up to root for the death of a human and be thrilled that she was shot by one of "the enemy". They really frak with your mind in terms of who the "good guys" are.  My wife thought the whole "Frak you"/"You're not my type" exchange was a bit campy, but I thought it was well-played, because Cain, in a manner of speaking, severely damaged Gina by frakking her, by way of several of her male crewmen - if she didn't authorize it, she definitely turned a blind eye to it.

Ronald D. Moore has said a few times in podcasts that he doesn't intend for BSG to be a direct parallel to 9/11 and things like the Iraq War that followed it - wars in general tend to have common things that happened, and the events of the show are patterned after such things throughout human history. That said, it's hard not to think about the prison scandal where American soldiers were sexually humiliating Iraqi prisoners and so forth.

One thing that does bug me about Cain's death was that it reveals a bit of a loophole in Pegasus security. That'll become a bit of a plot hole again in a later episode. Some of the episodes at around this point in Season 2.5 are a bit weaker and easier to find logical flaws with, just to warn you.

Every time someone says godsdammit or godsdamn I crack up. That's such a funny way to get around the censors.

The funny thing is that it's cable, so theoretically, nobody cares. But then Moore does talk about how sometimes they get slapped on the hand by the network when they take it too far with the Six Sex or whatever.

What makes the Cylons the best part of the show for me isn't their need to wipe humanity off the map, but why they want to. One of my favorite moments was when Six and Doral were on Caprica and Six said that if the Cylons are humanity's children, then they've just destroyed their parents. Those layers are my favorite part of the show.

I think you're gonna love Downloaded. I raced to get to that episode, staying up late and waching 2 eps a night, and I wasn't disappointed.

Hee. I watch all of those shows, and I think the most annoying to me would be Jack and Kate, followed very closely by Starbuck and Apollo. (Matt and Harriet don't bother me; Jordan and Danny is a far worse coupling in my opinion.)

That's funny; I can totally handle Jordan and Danny, but I can't see one friggin' reason why Matt and Harriet would be good for each other (partially because Harriet is such an annoying priss, even though she's allegedly such a cool comic genius). Danny's motivations are still a total mystery to me since you'd think he'd run screaming at the commitment inherent in a woman who was going to have a baby, but then, I guess there's Charlie and Claire on Lost, and that never made much sense to me either. I could be cynical and say Danny just wants to play around a little, and with a woman who just got pregnant, hey, stress-free birth control.

I actually thought they were finally going to get it over with in Scar. Blah. The thing is, I've learned to like Starbuck and Apollo a little, but independently of each other. They're okay as friends, but the love interested thing is so contrived. The Apollo/Dualla thing really came out of nowhere to me, but I can live with it, I suppose. The last three episode I've watched (Black Market, Scar, Sacrifice) have been lacking to me for some reason; I guess the combination of the focus on Apollo and Starbuck (I don't think I'll ever be crazy about either one of them) and the greatness of the episodes just before them led me to feel a tad disappointed.

Ah, so you've already gotten that far. Damn, you're catching up fast! You can ignore my above warning, since it applied mostly to Black Market, though I also think Epiphanies, Sacrifice, and The Captain's Hand were lesser episodes with a lot of inconsistencies. Ronald D. Moore has publicly expressed his dissatisfaction with Black Market, and he takes full responsibility for it - listen to the commentary. There was just too much about Apollo that got introduced out of nowhere, and the episode didn't really feel like BSG. Sacrifice didn't quite go down the way they wanted it to; I believe it was a bit rushed because Paul Campbell (Billy) had been coming and going; he wasn't under full contract and he was trying out for more prominent roles on other series that didn't get picked up. They eventually agreed to let him go so that he could fully pursue the opportunities he wanted to, rather than being stuck full-time in a secondary role. So that explains the death of Billy. I kind of miss him.

I loved Scar, though. I had seen Top Gun for the first time not long before watching that, and it cracked me up to basically see BSG's version of Top Gun with two badass female characters in the cockpits. I liked that Apollo and Starbuck almost "did it" in that episode and then he pulled away when she realized she was just in it for the flesh. I kind of saw that as sealing the fate on their relationship, that they could come to the point of being friends if they worked at it, but trying to be anything beyond that would only bring a lot of heartache and confusion.

Apollo/Dualla kind of came out of nowhere, and honestly, so did Starbuck/Anders. They planted the Apollo/Dualla seed quite subtly early in Season 2 (when she would meet with him on his way to and from the brig), and they wanted more time to develop the Starbuck/Anders relationship before she had to leave him behind - I can buy that she'd bed him rather quickly, but not that she'd be that fixated on him now that she's back on Galactica. Dualla kind of sucks for seeing Apollo on the side before breaking it off with Billy - I get that she wasn't fully satisfied with him, but that was a crappy thing to do. But I still like Dualla. She's sweet but can be tough when it's called for, and I'd love to see her get a little more backstory in the future.

They all had their redeeming points, though. And like I said, the first few episodes of the second half of season two were far more awesome than I could've ever predicted.

OK, just get through The Captain's Hand, and you'll be all set up for the awesome one-two-three punch that is Downloaded and the two-part season finale.

Then we'll have to figure out how the hell to catch you up on Season three. Hmmm...

[AldaForPresident]

Plus, now she's dead, and dead characters are automatically ruled out unless seen again at a point later in the timeline (thus far I don't believe they've used this scheme to reveal that someone is a Cylon).

That would be a cool way to out a Cylon, though. I always wonder, like what if Baltar saw another copy of Six that was on Caprica before the attacks and approached her? Or if Tyrol had ran into another copy of Sharon, you know. That would've been interesting.

I thought you'd enjoy Cain's death, especially at the hands of a copy of Six. It's so weird how the show sets you up to root for the death of a human and be thrilled that she was shot by one of "the enemy". They really frak with your mind in terms of who the "good guys" are.  My wife thought the whole "Frak you"/"You're not my type" exchange was a bit campy, but I thought it was well-played, because Cain, in a manner of speaking, severely damaged Gina by frakking her, by way of several of her male crewmen - if she didn't authorize it, she definitely turned a blind eye to it.

I thought the exchange at the end was awesome, a really cool "frak-you" moment from a Cylon that deserved some vindication. I like Gina a lot; I wish we saw more of her. I had just assumed that she had been a sleeper agent until she told Baltar she wasn't. I would like to know how many sleeper agents there were, and if there's still any around.

Ronald D. Moore has said a few times in podcasts that he doesn't intend for BSG to be a direct parallel to 9/11 and things like the Iraq War that followed it - wars in general tend to have common things that happened, and the events of the show are patterned after such things throughout human history. That said, it's hard not to think about the prison scandal where American soldiers were sexually humiliating Iraqi prisoners and so forth.

There are a lot of elements in the show that have that sort of topical feel, but I've never really thought of it as commentary or anything. I wouldn't see anything wrong with it, personally, if it were, on that particular issue at least. The thing that strikes me most often is the way the Cylons kind of view the Colonials and their religion as pagan, infidel-ish, and the Cylons worship the one true God. And every time they show that shrine to the victims of the attacks, of course I think about 9/11.

I think you're gonna love Downloaded. I raced to get to that episode, staying up late and waching 2 eps a night, and I wasn't disappointed.

I watched The Captain's Hand and Downloaded today, and you're right, Downloaded was amazing. I always love seeing more of the Cylons, and more of the various copies. Caprica Six is probably my favorite, although there's only been one copy of Six I haven't liked- Shelly Godfries, I think was her name? The one who was on Galactica and tried to implicate Baltar as the one who helped the Cylons get access to the defense mainframe. Anyway, it was awesome to see Six seem truly conflicted for once, and I LOVE that she sees Baltar the exact same way he sees her. It's trippy and nonsensical, but I love it.

That's funny; I can totally handle Jordan and Danny, but I can't see one friggin' reason why Matt and Harriet would be good for each other (partially because Harriet is such an annoying priss, even though she's allegedly such a cool comic genius).

Yeah, I get any annoyance that stems from Harriet and Matt, especially since they've dumbed Harriet so far down after she started out as pretty cool and a great impressionist at the very least. I love Bradley Whitford and he's a great actor, but Danny is an asshole most of the time, and Whitford and Matthew Perry have more chemistry than Whitford and Amanda Peet do. I like Jordan but I want her to be with Steven Webber's character. Jack is the best character on the show!

Ah, so you've already gotten that far. Damn, you're catching up fast! You can ignore my above warning, since it applied mostly to Black Market, though I also think Epiphanies, Sacrifice, and The Captain's Hand were lesser episodes with a lot of inconsistencies. Ronald D. Moore has publicly expressed his dissatisfaction with Black Market, and he takes full responsibility for it - listen to the commentary. There was just too much about Apollo that got introduced out of nowhere, and the episode didn't really feel like BSG.

Yeah, Black Market pretty much sucked and felt weird and disjointed. I'm okay with a couple lackluster episodes and one true clunker, though, because it's kind of understandable. You can't always hit the ball out of the park, but they do a fantastic job 85 or 90 percent of the time. They seriously should've ditched one of the Apollo backstories- either the old girlfriend who got pregnant or the hooker and her kid. Preferably the latter, because it was seriously out of character to me. I don't know, Apollo bugs. I liked him in The Captain's Hand, though.

I kind of saw that as sealing the fate on their relationship, that they could come to the point of being friends if they worked at it, but trying to be anything beyond that would only bring a lot of heartache and confusion.

If only I could believe that- I feel like they're always going to be like, Starbuck and Apollo: When will they do it?!

Apollo/Dualla kind of came out of nowhere, and honestly, so did Starbuck/Anders. They planted the Apollo/Dualla seed quite subtly early in Season 2 (when she would meet with him on his way to and from the brig), and they wanted more time to develop the Starbuck/Anders relationship before she had to leave him behind - I can buy that she'd bed him rather quickly, but not that she'd be that fixated on him now that she's back on Galactica. Dualla kind of sucks for seeing Apollo on the side before breaking it off with Billy - I get that she wasn't fully satisfied with him, but that was a crappy thing to do. But I still like Dualla. She's sweet but can be tough when it's called for, and I'd love to see her get a little more backstory in the future.

Yeah, I sort of saw the faint beginnings of an Apollo/Dualla thing a few episodes before it really began, but still, I didn't expect it to happen as suddenly and intensely as it did, although I can kind of jusitify it because of the hostage situation and a traumatic experience such as that can bond people together. I guess that's the same thing with Starbuck and Anders, although I'm not crazy about either one of them so it's sort of, eh. I didn't really pay much attention to Billy, but yeah, Dualla did mess up toward the end of their relationship and I felt bad for him. On a superficial level, I don't blame her for dumping Billy for Apollo, but Apollo's also a self-righteous prick half the time, so you know.

Then we'll have to figure out how the hell to catch you up on Season three. Hmmm...

Last night my mom asked me if I had finished season two yet, and I told her I had to slow down or I would lose my mind when I got finished. Of course, I did not slow down whatsoever and now I really will lose my mind. My crappy slow computer can burn in computer hell! I so should've just let my grandmother give me a Christmas present on Christmas.

[murlough23]

That would be a cool way to out a Cylon, though. I always wonder, like what if Baltar saw another copy of Six that was on Caprica before the attacks and approached her? Or if Tyrol had ran into another copy of Sharon, you know. That would've been interesting.

While it doesn't involve the death of either copy, there is an incident at one point where a Cylon is outed due to the presence of two of them being discovered. It's rather humorous how it plays out.

I thought the exchange at the end was awesome, a really cool "frak-you" moment from a Cylon that deserved some vindication. I like Gina a lot; I wish we saw more of her.

You saw her again in Epiphanies. She had a subplot in Downloaded where she and D'Anna Biers were going to try to kidnap Sharon's baby, but it got cut because there were too many copies of Cylons in different places and they didn't want to confuse the audience.

I had just assumed that she had been a sleeper agent until she told Baltar she wasn't. I would like to know how many sleeper agents there were, and if there's still any around.

Sharon told Baltar, when put under the pressure of Tyrol dying, that there were eight Cylon agents still in the Fleet. Assuming this is true, D'Anna Biers is one, and I'm not sure if Gina counts since she was aboard Pegasus at the time, which wasn't part of the human fleet at that point. I have no idea if any of the rest are sleepers; the only sleeper I've seen thus far has been Sharon.

There are a lot of elements in the show that have that sort of topical feel, but I've never really thought of it as commentary or anything. I wouldn't see anything wrong with it, personally, if it were, on that particular issue at least. The thing that strikes me most often is the way the Cylons kind of view the Colonials and their religion as pagan, infidel-ish, and the Cylons worship the one true God. And every time they show that shrine to the victims of the attacks, of course I think about 9/11.

Yeah, I think it's more that the writers see current events, and also know about historical events involving how people behave in times of war, and go "Hey, that gives me an idea." What they end up writing usually isn't intended to be a direct allegory or lesson in history; it's just that sometimes their sources of inspiration are easier to pick out.

I watched The Captain's Hand and Downloaded today, and you're right, Downloaded was amazing. I always love seeing more of the Cylons, and more of the various copies. Caprica Six is probably my favorite, although there's only been one copy of Six I haven't liked- Shelly Godfries, I think was her name? The one who was on Galactica and tried to implicate Baltar as the one who helped the Cylons get access to the defense mainframe.

Shelley Godfrey was her name, I believe. It's been a while since I watched that one. I thought it was funny just because I had no clue what it was gonna be about, and having a flesh-and-blood copy of Six show up was about the last thing I expected. It was a hilarious revenge against Baltar for daring to cross her. I didn't like that she tried to flirt with Adama. maginary Six makes sense (as much as I think she's overdone) because she's specifically designed to fit Baltar's sexual fantasies, thus maintaining a decent amount of control over him. I don't see Adama falling for the same tricks, and I think it was a really bad lack of judgment on Shelley's part to even attempt that. I had similar thoughts when Ellen Tigh first appeared and started flirting with Apollo and Baltar - makes sense for her character, but I was annoyed with how blatant it was - nobody would be so stupid as to fall for that when the XO is in the same room!

One mystery that still evades me is how Shelley Godfrey escaped Galactica once they figured out she was a Cylon. Same thing with Gina after she killed Cain. Godfrey could have somehow committed suicide and resurrected, I suppose, but how would she have done it in such a way as to not leave a corpse behind? Did she just step into an incinerator or airlock herself somehow? Gina obviously had to get off of Pegasus with her current body intact, as the Resurrection Ship had just been destroyed. So that one's a big mystery, though  guess Baltar beign in on it helps explain it somewhat.

Anyway, it was awesome to see Six seem truly conflicted for once, and I LOVE that she sees Baltar the exact same way he sees her. It's trippy and nonsensical, but I love it.

That whole hallucination business is just weird. Maybe it really is just a traumatic imprint on one's consciousness, but plenty of other characters feel guilty about deaths they think they've caused, and this doesn't happen to them, so the Cylons had to have intentionally caused this somehow.

Yeah, I get any annoyance that stems from Harriet and Matt, especially since they've dumbed Harriet so far down after she started out as pretty cool and a great impressionist at the very least. I love Bradley Whitford and he's a great actor, but Danny is an asshole most of the time, and Whitford and Matthew Perry have more chemistry than Whitford and Amanda Peet do. I like Jordan but I want her to be with Steven Webber's character. Jack is the best character on the show!

Maybe later I'll start a Studio 60 thread so that I can try to prevent you from being further led astray. 

Yeah, Black Market pretty much sucked and felt weird and disjointed. I'm okay with a couple lackluster episodes and one true clunker, though, because it's kind of understandable. You can't always hit the ball out of the park, but they do a fantastic job 85 or 90 percent of the time. They seriously should've ditched one of the Apollo backstories- either the old girlfriend who got pregnant or the hooker and her kid. Preferably the latter, because it was seriously out of character to me. I don't know, Apollo bugs. I liked him in The Captain's Hand, though.

Yeah, Apollo's kind of a boy scout and then he goes and does stuff like that behind people's backs? And then we're supposed to feel sorry for him because he's all dark and suicidal? Get it together, kid. Sometimes I think he's even more sanctimonious and annoying than Jack on Lost.

Though the thing that really bugged about Black Market is that they were trying to paint a picture of this big bad underbelly of society that Apollo had got swept up in because, look how guilt-ridden and messed up he is, he started sleeping with a prostitute! Except wait, prostitution's legal in this society. So we can't really use that to show conflicted morality... erm, wait, how can we set apart the baddies, then... oh I know, kiddie porn! Give me a break.

I feel like they're making Apollo too much of a jack-of-all-trades. (They do that a little with Starbuck, too, but not as egregiously.) I can handle him as crack-shot pilot and as political liaison. I'm having more troubling handling him as crime scene investigator and as Pegasus captain. It's like, don't you have military police to investigate the black market stuff? And isn't it a bit unfair for the Admiral's son to just jump a few rungs from Major up to Commander of a battlestar? Shouldn't someone who knew the ins and outs of Pegasus taken that job? (I see why Tigh wouldn't have been chomping at the bit for that job, but speaking strictly in terms of rank, I think it would have made more sense for Tigh to be running Pegasus, so long as he had Adama still over him to keep things from getting out of hand.)

If only I could believe that- I feel like they're always going to be like, Starbuck and Apollo: When will they do it?!

Normally, once characters get into other serious relationships, we can stop worrying about things like this, but yeah, middle of Season Three and that's still a hot-button issue, unfortunately. (You'll see what I mean eventually and it's not necessarily what you'd think in terms of the fates of their relationships with Anders and Dualla.)

Yeah, I sort of saw the faint beginnings of an Apollo/Dualla thing a few episodes before it really began, but still, I didn't expect it to happen as suddenly and intensely as it did, although I can kind of jusitify it because of the hostage situation and a traumatic experience such as that can bond people together. I guess that's the same thing with Starbuck and Anders, although I'm not crazy about either one of them so it's sort of, eh. I didn't really pay much attention to Billy, but yeah, Dualla did mess up toward the end of their relationship and I felt bad for him. On a superficial level, I don't blame her for dumping Billy for Apollo, but Apollo's also a self-righteous prick half the time, so you know.

WORD to all of that. At least if Dualla had the decency to dump him once she started pursuing Apollo, Billy might still be alive.

Last night my mom asked me if I had finished season two yet, and I told her I had to slow down or I would lose my mind when I got finished. Of course, I did not slow down whatsoever and now I really will lose my mind. My crappy slow computer can burn in computer hell! I so should've just let my grandmother give me a Christmas present on Christmas.

What, are you done with the season finale already? Go back and watch the deleted scenes or something.

[AldaForPresident]

I didn't like that she tried to flirt with Adama. maginary Six makes sense (as much as I think she's overdone) because she's specifically designed to fit Baltar's sexual fantasies, thus maintaining a decent amount of control over him. I don't see Adama falling for the same tricks, and I think it was a really bad lack of judgment on Shelley's part to even attempt that.

Seriously. That's the main reason I wasn't a fan of that copy of Six- flirting with Adama was way too heavy-handed and stupid and not Six-ish style at all, to me.

One mystery that still evades me is how Shelley Godfrey escaped Galactica once they figured out she was a Cylon. Same thing with Gina after she killed Cain. Godfrey could have somehow committed suicide and resurrected, I suppose, but how would she have done it in such a way as to not leave a corpse behind? Did she just step into an incinerator or airlock herself somehow? Gina obviously had to get off of Pegasus with her current body intact, as the Resurrection Ship had just been destroyed. So that one's a big mystery, though  guess Baltar beign in on it helps explain it somewhat.

Yeah, I kept waiting for them to explain how Baltar got Gina off Pegasus but they never did and that disappointed me a little. I guess we're just supposed to assume he pulled some Vice Presidential strings. although even that's a stretch given the suspiscion he attracts nearly everywhere he goes.

That whole hallucination business is just weird. Maybe it really is just a traumatic imprint on one's consciousness, but plenty of other characters feel guilty about deaths they think they've caused, and this doesn't happen to them, so the Cylons had to have intentionally caused this somehow.

I hope the hallucinations are explained somewhere down the road. I don't see how (or why) the Cylons would've caused Six to have visions of Baltar, but I don't see any other explanation for them.

Maybe later I'll start a Studio 60 thread so that I can try to prevent you from being further led astray. 

I watch too much TV!

Yeah, Apollo's kind of a boy scout and then he goes and does stuff like that behind people's backs? And then we're supposed to feel sorry for him because he's all dark and suicidal? Get it together, kid. Sometimes I think he's even more sanctimonious and annoying than Jack on Lost.

I don't find Jack sanctimonious or annoying, but I can absolutely see base similarities between him and Apollo (who I definitely find sanctimonious and annoying). I think the big difference is- and the reason I love Jack but generally want Apollo to blow up- that Jack actually has flaws, and therefore it's about nine million times more believeable when he does something stupid or wrong or badass. Apollo just comes across as a hypocrite or a poser.

Except wait, prostitution's legal in this society.

WHAT is the deal with that? It's the same with Firefly, and it's just ridiculous to me.

And isn't it a bit unfair for the Admiral's son to just jump a few rungs from Major up to Commander of a battlestar? Shouldn't someone who knew the ins and outs of Pegasus taken that job? (I see why Tigh wouldn't have been chomping at the bit for that job, but speaking strictly in terms of rank, I think it would have made more sense for Tigh to be running Pegasus, so long as he had Adama still over him to keep things from getting out of hand.)

Yes, yes, and yes! As much as Tigh can piss me off, whenever Adama gave Apollo command of Pegasus, I was like, Seriously? What about Tigh?

What, are you done with the season finale already? Go back and watch the deleted scenes or something.

No, I'm only through Downloaded, but I'll probably finish it off either tonight or tomorrow. I need to watch all the special features- at this point I've only listened to the miniseries commentary and watched a couple of the season one featurettes. And I need to watch the "extended" Pegasus. From some of the previously-on-BSG stuff they've shown, either I skipped an episode in my haste or that version of Pegasus is quite a bit longer.

[murlough23]

Yeah, I kept waiting for them to explain how Baltar got Gina off Pegasus but they never did and that disappointed me a little. I guess we're just supposed to assume he pulled some Vice Presidential strings. although even that's a stretch given the suspiscion he attracts nearly everywhere he goes.

Yeah, "Baltar can do whatever he wants" does stretch credibility from time to time. In many episodes in S2, they just got lax about security as far as Baltar was concerned. He can sneak a known Cylon off of Pegasus and covertly transport a nuclear weapon! Wow!

I hope the hallucinations are explained somewhere down the road. I don't see how (or why) the Cylons would've caused Six to have visions of Baltar, but I don't see any other explanation for them.

It doesn't really make sense unless there's a greater nefarious force at work there. That said, the Cylons have tried to make humans fall in love with them in various ways; this may be an experiment on Baltar and the Cylon model chosen to pose as his girlfriend.

I don't find Jack sanctimonious or annoying, but I can absolutely see base similarities between him and Apollo (who I definitely find sanctimonious and annoying). I think the big difference is- and the reason I love Jack but generally want Apollo to blow up- that Jack actually has flaws, and therefore it's about nine million times more believeable when he does something stupid or wrong or badass. Apollo just comes across as a hypocrite or a poser.

Apollo has flaws too, obviously. They were just very suddenly thrown at us in ways which didn't make a whole lot of sense. It would have worked better if they had hinted at Apollo's former girlfriend and his prostitute visits a little earlier on. Then Black Market might've worked as a payoff to a few of his ongoing plot threads.
 

WHAT is the deal with that? It's the same with Firefly, and it's just ridiculous to me.

If they want to say prostitution, or abortion, or gay marriage, or whatever, is legal in the society they've made up, that's fine by me. It's a product of their imagination, nd we already know they're not trying to show us a Utopian, highly moral society like you might have seen in Star Trek. They just can't pull a fast one by making something legal and apparently not frowned upon in that society, but use the perceptions of that activity in our society as a cheat to prove to us that a character is shady. Either they're moralizing about it or not. Black Market kind of played it half-handedly, and that annoyed me.

And I need to watch the "extended" Pegasus.

The version in which they actually interrupt Sharon's rape in progress. Yeah, have fun with that one.

From some of the previously-on-BSG stuff they've shown, either I skipped an episode in my haste or that version of Pegasus is quite a bit longer.

Actually, some of that previously stuff wasn't in any episode (perhaps in deleted scenes or something). It confused a lot of people and made them wonder if they'd missed something in a previous episode.

NP: "Dirty Second Hands", Switchfoot

[AldaForPresident]

I watched the season two finale last night, and man. I don't even know what to say. So, so, so good. But also, I feel likeg going in a corner and crying because I don't have any more of it to watch.

[murlough23]

I watched the season two finale last night, and man. I don't even know what to say. So, so, so good. But also, I feel likeg going in a corner and crying because I don't have any more of it to watch.

Go to http://www.scifi.com/battlestar and watch the webisodes that take place in between Seasons 2 and 3.

[enemy anemone]

I'm working on getting  through the 3-hour miniseries disc.

[AldaForPresident]

Go to http://www.scifi.com/battlestar and watch the webisodes that take place in between Seasons 2 and 3.

I'll have to check those out when I'm off Monday & Tuesday. Thanks! I'm always too tired to sit here at the computer for too long after work.

Watched the season two finale again last night after work, though. LOVE IT.

[AldaForPresident]

I wonder if Sci Fi will show a marathon of the episodes so far in season three (and the one that airs on Friday) any time before the show comes back in January? Because I would LOVE to start watching in real time.

[murlough23]

I wonder if Sci Fi will show a marathon of the episodes so far in season three (and the one that airs on Friday) any time before the show comes back in January? Because I would LOVE to start watching in real time.

That would be very smart of them. I'm assuming you have cable? I don't.

[AldaForPresident]

That would be very smart of them. I'm assuming you have cable? I don't.

Yeah, we do. I could kick myself for not watching seasons one and two before season three started. I did the exact same thing with Lost last year- waited until November to watch season one. You'd think I'd know better by now.

[AldaForPresident]

Oh, earlier I told my friend who also watches the show on occasion that I wish I had been watching while season two was airing, so I couldn't gotten a Roslin for President bumper sticker for one side of my car and a Baltar for President one for the other, because I couldn't decide. (Really I could; obviously Roslin, but I love Baltar so, so much.)

[AldaForPresident]

There's a season three marathon January 15!!!!! Yay!!! I'm so excited. I hope I'm off that day so I can watch it instead of taping it. This has made my day. 

[murlough23]

There's a season three marathon January 15!!!!! Yay!!! I'm so excited. I hope I'm off that day so I can watch it instead of taping it. This has made my day. 

I just forwarded the news to a co-worker who has been trying to catch up but missed the fourth episode when her DVR failed to record it. That's a pretty crucial one and skipping to the next episode would really ruin the surprise of what happens in that episode, so I advised her to just wait and hope for a marathon.

[bloop]

If they want to say prostitution, or abortion, or gay marriage, or whatever, is legal in the society they've made up, that's fine by me. It's a product of their imagination, nd we already know they're not trying to show us a Utopian, highly moral society like you might have seen in Star Trek. They just can't pull a fast one by making something legal and apparently not frowned upon in that society, but use the perceptions of that activity in our society as a cheat to prove to us that a character is shady. Either they're moralizing about it or not. Black Market kind of played it half-handedly, and that annoyed me.

It actually makes some sense to me.  We tend leftward, or at least more libertarian, in what we allow people to do.  I thought Firefly did it in an interesting way - a little influenced by the geisha perhaps.

Didn't Star Trek have hookers?  (Deanna Troy conducts herself like one sometimes, but I'm talking actual prostitutes)

[murlough23]

Didn't Star Trek have hookers?  (Deanna Troy conducts herself like one sometimes, but I'm talking actual prostitutes)

I seem to recall Quark's bar having "holosuites" in DS9; they were holograms and not real women, but it's a similar principle. (Maybe that's more like interactive porn, but whatever.)

Ironically, the real Quark's Bar, part of the Star Trek Experience at the Las Vegas Hilton, in a state where prostitution is legal, has no such thing. I was there this weekend; I checked. 

[AldaForPresident]

I watched the marathon today! Wow. So many episodes together has proved to be a bit confusing, and my whole frakking day is shot, but it was worth it. I was sort of beginning to rethink my position as a Cylon apologist after the first few episodes, but I love them so much. Lee and Kara suck; I didn't really enjoy Unfinished Business very much, and I'm still not sure how I feel about Hero, but other than that, I LOVE season three so far. I can't wait for Sunday.

[murlough23]

Lee and Kara suck

Phew. At least it isn't sexual intercourse, then.

[AldaForPresident]

Phew. At least it isn't sexual intercourse, then.

 

[Brenden]

I'm working through the mini-series now, hopefully I'll be caught up eventually.

[AldaForPresident]

(Spoilers)

WHO ARE THE FINAL FIVE?! I need to know!

I'm going to miss D'Anna a lot. I hope we see her again eventually.

[murlough23]

Phew. I've finally watched it and can now talk about it.

I'm going to miss D'Anna a lot. I hope we see her again eventually.

I'll miss her too. I'm sure this will get rid of her character for a while, but her memory still exists in cold storage or something. I'm sure that the Three model could be resurrected, but the Cylons probably won't be keen on doing that unless a Six or an Eight rebels or something.

What's more shocking to me is Starbuck's apparent connecton to the Temple of Five. The obvious speculation is that she is a Cylon, but this is doubtful to me since she has a childhood which she distinctly remembers, and she and Helo go pretty far back (humanoid Cylon agents have apparently existed for a much shorter period of time). I suppose that also rules out her being the child of a Cylon, but in any event, it's pretty freaking weird. I think it makes her somehow connected to the humans who built the Temple of Five, but I can't be certain of that.

[AldaForPresident]

What's more shocking to me is Starbuck's apparent connecton to the Temple of Five.

Yeah, that was pretty awesome.

The obvious speculation is that she is a Cylon, but this is doubtful to me since she has a childhood which she distinctly remembers, and she and Helo go pretty far back (humanoid Cylon agents have apparently existed for a much shorter period of time).

Yeah, and Starbuck is just not cool enough to be a Cylon. Period!

I think it makes her somehow connected to the humans who built the Temple of Five, but I can't be certain of that.

That's the most plausible explanation to me . Although making Starbuck a Cylon would be really crazy, and yeah, I'd probably start to like her then.

[AldaForPresident]

I so wish we could be sure Apollo and Starbuck are really over, but I know that's too good to be true. I can deal with Apollo when he's with Dee, and I like Sam, but Starbuck is the one character on the show I honestly would love to see airlocked.

Roslin interrogating Baltar was awesome. I feel so bad for Baltar, though. I know he pretty much brought it on himself, but I love him so much. Six, Baltar, and Roslin are my BSG holy trinity.

Next week looks great! I'm psyched.

[murlough23]

I so wish we could be sure Apollo and Starbuck are really over, but I know that's too good to be true.

I agree. The tension between them was interesting for a while, but now that they've allowed the characters to make a decision with some amount of finality to it in this week's episode, I say give it a rest. Old flames can be problematic but they shouldn't be portrayed as these completely impassable mental blocks that completely wreck one's chances of ever being happy with anyone else. If they're going to pursue this storyline any further, they should at least give us a scene with Dee and Sam at the bar bitching about how their spouses just can't get the hell over it already.

I can deal with Apollo when he's with Dee, and I like Sam, but Starbuck is the one character on the show I honestly would love to see airlocked.

I like Starbuck when this storyline isn't involved. I think her weird connection to the Temple of Five has some potential. I enjoy her friendship with Helo. I'd also like to see more of her and Sharon together, though after what happened with the baby, that's probably wishful thinking on my part. I liked the way her relationships with various people stood in the first season.

Roslin interrogating Baltar was awesome.

Indeed they were. Ronald D. Moore said in the podcast that Edward James Olmos (who directed the episode) really pushed Mary MacDonnell further than she had gone before in terms of her intensity in those scenes.

One thing I have to complain about with the direction of this episode is that they knew they had two totally unrelated storylines, and the way they kept cutting back and forth between them was extremely jarring. Most TV shows have an A plot and a B plot that aren't necessarily related, which is fine, but they'll usually let a scene play out before jumping away from it. The back and forth with this episode was dizzying, and if the B plot had been similarly intense, that technique might have made sense, but the B plot was the frickin' love qudrangle. Give me break. I'm much more interested in whatever unseen fight was going on with Tyrol and Cally.

I feel so bad for Baltar, though. I know he pretty much brought it on himself, but I love him so much.

I couldn't understand for the longest time why he wanted to be a Cylon, but now it finally makes sense to me. That would absolve him of his own guilt because he would no longer have betrayed his own people. I really enjoyed the psych-out with his "resurrecting" after hanging himself. I should have known something was suspicious when he only saw Sixes around the tub. He's totally human and he totally has to deal with the ramifications of what he's done.

Did you see that cut scene with Roslin and Six after the credits? That was weird that they just stuck it on there like that. Actually, when they said they knew exactly who to get to talk to Baltar, I originally thought they were going to go get the Six they had in the brig, so it surprised me when they brought in Gaeta instead. I thought for a second that maybe Gaeta was the Cylon and he knew exactly the right time to go visit Baltar (thereby saving him from his own suicide) because Imaginary Six was somehow able to transmit an urgent message to him or whatever.

But then, Gaeta wouldn't exactly be a very formidable Cylon. I can't exactly see Three gazing into Gaeta's eyes and welling up with supernatural wonder and exclaiming, "It was you! Forgive me, I didn't know."

Six, Baltar, and Roslin are my BSG holy trinity.

Mine are Sharon, Tigh, and Starbuck.

Next week looks great! I'm psyched.

That's two weeks away, actually, though for you it probably is closer to one week.

[AldaForPresident]

I like Starbuck when this storyline isn't involved. I think her weird connection to the Temple of Five has some potential. I enjoy her friendship with Helo. I'd also like to see more of her and Sharon together, though after what happened with the baby, that's probably wishful thinking on my part. I liked the way her relationships with various people stood in the first season.

There are times when I can tolerate Starbuck, and I do remember have some good will toward her in season one, especially when she went back to Caprica for Roslin. But now I just find her obnoxious. I do want to know about her connection of the Temple, though.

Indeed they were. Ronald D. Moore said in the podcast that Edward James Olmos (who directed the episode) really pushed Mary MacDonnell further than she had gone before in terms of her intensity in those scenes.

I actually wondered if the scene where she told Tigh to airlock Baltar was a dream sequence or something at first, because I was like "There's no way Laura would airlock Baltar! Or even act that way!" But it makes so much sense to me now. She never trusted him, ever, and having all her fears and suspicions confirmed really pissed her off. Mary McDonnell is awesome.

One thing I have to complain about with the direction of this episode is that they knew they had two totally unrelated storylines, and the way they kept cutting back and forth between them was extremely jarring.

Yeah, I thought the editing was wonky. Something was just off about it.

I'm much more interested in whatever unseen fight was going on with Tyrol and Cally.

The less I see of Cally, the happier I am, but I was pissed there was no Caprica Six other than the deleted scene. I had been looking forward to seeing her on Galactica, but oh, no, let's watch Kara and Lee pine after each other some more.

I couldn't understand for the longest time why he wanted to be a Cylon, but now it finally makes sense to me. That would absolve him of his own guilt because he would no longer have betrayed his own people. I really enjoyed the psych-out with his "resurrecting" after hanging himself. I should have known something was suspicious when he only saw Sixes around the tub. He's totally human and he totally has to deal with the ramifications of what he's done.

I wanted him to be a Cylon so badly, just for his own sake. I can't help but love him. I just want everyone, especially Laura, to understand that he never intended for everything to end up the way it did. In Precipice, he told Laura that he had always obeyed his conscience. And I honestly believe that he believes that.

Did you see that cut scene with Roslin and Six after the credits?

I so wish they had left out some of the Lee/Kara crap and put in more Six/Roslin interaction. That would've been so great.

But then, Gaeta wouldn't exactly be a very formidable Cylon. I can't exactly see Three gazing into Gaeta's eyes and welling up with supernatural wonder and exclaiming, "It was you! Forgive me, I didn't know."

I can sort of see Gaeta being one of the Final Five, but not the one Three recognized. I would like to think whomever she saw is someone who will just blow our minds.

Mine are Sharon, Tigh, and Starbuck.

I love Sharon as well, as I love all Cylons. I kind of have a love/hate relationship with Tigh, but in the first few episodes of season three he kicked so much ass.

That's two weeks away, actually, though for you it probably is closer to one week.

Oh, yeah. Stupid Superbowl.