Evanesence, take two

[Josh]

Now here's an interesting review of Fallen. In fact, it might just be the best take on this band that I've seen.

Thoughts?

[oneafroboy]

Good article. I have not listen to their album in its entirely. I've only heard a few songs. They kind of remind me of Linkin Park. Like Linkin Park meets Plumb or something... And we all know Linkin Park is very commercialized. They have talented, but I think so much of that is lost and sterilized in the production, the gloss, the loops, etc. I'm not bashing them, I have both albums, and there are times when I like to crank them; however, from an artistic point of view, there's not much art in there. Or maybe there is not much good art. I mean, the lyrics are really bold and vibrant, and that's really cool. But still, the music's important, too... I certainly think Evansence put out an honest effort, but do they stand out as excellent? Do they really stand out against the sterilized, bland, pop world as it is today. Props for putting themselves out there and being adamant about what they do. And hey, they've got potential. But my hope for modern pop music to revive itself and become artful again...well, it's not in them. ; )

About the whole Christian thing. I really don't know if pulling their albums off the shelves was wrong. I mean, didn't they say they didn't belong on the Christian charts? Weren't they the ones who were asking why in the world were they being put with Christian music? Hey, if they don't want to be there, then don't put them there. If an artist doesn't want to be in a Christian store, so be it. I mean, what's the big deal?

Anyway, good article. Thanks for directing our attention to that Josh.

--Afroboy

[RokrantheGreat]

hmmm, good article. I have a copy of Fallen, but I've never listened to the whole thing, just the first few once. This article has convinced me to go try Evanescence again. My first impression was that Evanescence wasn't really that good by themselves. I loved "Bring me to Life" with 12 Stones in the background (or the lead singer for 12 stones anyway), but didn't like the other songs as much.

[bloop]

They're definitely the band to talk about this year, but I don't understand why.  I don't think their album is all that good, really, next to the likes of some of the giants from this year.

[beautifulmess]

I was obsessed with this band when I first heard "Bring Me To Life" but after hearing their whole album, my love for them faded quite a bit. The only song I really love on Fallen is "My Immortal".  

[RokrantheGreat]

After re-listening to Fallen a few times, I like Evanescence much better, though they aren't near as good as Linkin Park. Similiar, but not as good. Another conclusion: the radio version of "Bring me to Life" is better than the CD version.

[Josh]

I only heard the record once, but I'm not at all a fan.

[DvChWi]

I only heard the record once, but I'm not at all a fan.

My rule is that you should always listen more than once to an album before making any judgement.  I haven't heard the album, but you may want to check it out again, just for the sake of fairness.

[Josh]

My rule is that you should always listen more than once to an album before making any judgement.  I haven't heard the album, but you may want to check it out again, just for the sake of fairness.

That's good advice, and I agree. I certainly wouldn't write a  review based on one listen. I'm just giving my first impression. =)  

[bloop]

I've listened a couple of times.  It isn't going to make my top 20.  Good, but nothing exceptional noted.

[Vlad!]

I own the album (and have listened to it much more than once), and I like it. I would agree with Overstreet's general impression. I mean, this is their first album. It's polished, refined, and seems (as he said), preprocessed. I would suggest that this is because the band started with two people who couldn't even afford to put on live shows for a long time. I think once they get more resources at their disposal and start to play around with their abilities they'll release something perhaps a little rawer, without all the rough edges smoothed away.

I like their sound, and I honestly can't say that I dislike any song on their album. I'm hoping for great things from them in the future, and I know several of their songs will be appearing prominently on my mixes for years to come.  

[Josh]

I'll admit that, for such a young band, their songwriting is potent, save for a few problematic lines in (I believe) the final song on the album. And the singer's voice is lovely. If only they scored a few more points in the originality department...

[JupiterCrash17]

i hear they do an awful cover of "zero" at shows....

[oneafroboy]

Hey, all. I'm borrowing the album from a friend. Unfortunately, I didn't get through the entire album. Why? Well, honestly, it was just too much. It all pretty much sounded the same. Noisy and full of angst. Not bad, but as Josh said, orginiality isn't their strong point. (Btw, it's not that I don't like this type of music; I have all of POD's CDs and both of LinkinPark's, so...) As I said before, they have potential. Amy's voice is beautiful, but she doesn't go anywhere with it, you know? Her versitility as a singer as far as this album goes is limited. Now, they are just starting out. This is their first album, and in the long run, most first albums never really are a band's best. Anyway, I will certainly give it some more spins. I may come to like it more. Or maybe not. I don't think they're bad, but I don't think they're great or the best out their now. Just an opinion. All of this opinion, and if you like it, then cool. That's the beauty of music. There's something for just about everyone.
 

[Vlad!]

Hey, all. I'm borrowing the album from a friend. Unfortunately, I didn't get through the entire album. Why? Well, honestly, it was just too much. It all pretty much sounded the same. Noisy and full of angst. Not bad, but as Josh said, orginiality isn't their strong point. (Btw, it's not that I don't like this type of music; I have all of POD's CDs and both of LinkinPark's, so...) As I said before, they have potential. Amy's voice is beautiful, but she doesn't go anywhere with it, you know? Her versitility as a singer as far as this album goes is limited. Now, they are just starting out. This is their first album, and in the long run, most first albums never really are a band's best. Anyway, I will certainly give it some more spins. I may come to like it more. Or maybe not. I don't think they're bad, but I don't think they're great or the best out their now. Just an opinion. All of this opinion, and if you like it, then cool. That's the beauty of music. There's something for just about everyone.

Frankly, I'm surprised at your reaction. The album contains both the haunting (My Immortal) and the powerful (Bring Me to Life). I thought that Amy put her wonderful voice through the works with low and minor and high and soaring. And the lyrics aren't the whiney demand for attention that Linkin Park routinely exhibits.

save for a few problematic lines in (I believe) the final song on the album.

Could we get a quote? If you need help, here are their lyrics.

[Josh]

Sure. I remembered there being two lyrics that bugged me, but I could only find this one:

I know I can stop the pain
If I will it all away

Oh, please...

[Vlad!]

Aha, straight from David's review (where, I might add, he mentions that he's giving it a 4.5 but then is only listed as a 4 at the end...).

I have two ideas. One is that whoever wrote that song (I'm too lazy to get out the insert and check) stuck that somewhat immature and strange line in there because they actually believe it, which puzzles me but I freely admit is possible.

Before I present the second one, let me show you the whole verse:

Catch me as I fall
Say you're here and it's all over now
Speaking to the atmosphere
No one's here and I fall into myself
This truth drives me
Into madness
I know I can stop the pain
If I will it all away

The song seems to be a wiser, more mature (or at least more experienced) person addressing a younger person going throug the same pain that the older at one time also went through. Is it not conceivable that the first verse is the youger, hurt person (no-one's here and I fall into my self/ this truth drives me into madness) and then the chorus (don't turn away/don't give into the pain) is the mentor's comforting voice? Just a thought...

[Josh]

Entirely possible. Good theory. I'll have to give it some thought.

[bloop]

i hear they do an awful cover of "zero" at shows....

Someone, tell me this isn't true.

Fallen, in my book, is a *** album, no more, no less.  David uses a different system from me, though, where *** is average and 0 stars isn't possible...something like that.

[Vlad!]

David's system seems to make sense...0 is awful and 5 is wonderful. But it's really hard to quantify. What rating would I give Fallen? I dunno. On a scale from bread to milk I give it a lettuce. It's all arbitrary. That's why I don't end my reviews with ratings anymore.

[bloop]

hmm...it's my understanding that David's system is 1-5 stars and mine is 0-5 stars.  The star rating that translates to "average" for me is 2, for him, I think it's 3.

[oneafroboy]

Welp, Vlad! (in response to your reaction to my reaction), I will give it a few more spins.

Actually My Immortal was probably my favorite out of the bunch. And I'm still not hearing versitility. She's a good singer, so don't think I'm saying she's not.

 

[Vlad!]

hmm...it's my understanding that David's system is 1-5 stars and mine is 0-5 stars.  The star rating that translates to "average" for me is 2, for him, I think it's 3.

Oh, I see what you're saying. And it makes sense, as far as it goes, but my problem is still that the rating system is completely arbitrary and one-dimensional.

[Josh]

I dislike 1-5 star scales, as well, and stopped using them shortly after Vlad! did.

Using A, A-, B+, B, etc. is a bit better. With the stars system, everything with 3 stars is "good," and that's as much information as you get, whereas the grading scale makes the distinction between varying degrees of "good"; REM's Up and Coldplay's Parachutes are both good albums, but Up is B+ good, whereas Parachutes is slightly inferior, making only a B on my scale.

Still not perfect, and it certainly doesn't replace an actual REVIEW, but it's better than stars.

[bloop]

I don't try reviews very often, but I should.  Still, I don't have a good outlet for them.  I tried some at epinions a while back...I'm not even sure if they are still up.  I should attempt a review of "Ohio" and submit it sometime, though...not for publishing, just to get some pointers on my writing.  I'm a math guy so in the long run, it wouldn't amount to any more than a hobby.

Yeah, I don't know if a star system is quite arbitrary, but it isn't the most descriptive.  Still, if you want to attach grades:

0 = F
1 = D
1 1/2 = C-
2 = C
2 1/2 = C+
3 = B-
3 1/2 = B
4 = B+
4 1/2 = A-
5 = A

However, the best delineated system I've seen?

10.0: Essential
9.5-9.9: Spectacular
9.0-9.4: Amazing
8.5-8.9: Exceptional
8.0-8.4: Strong
7.5-7.9: Very good
7.0-7.4: Not brilliant, but nice enough
6.0-6.9: Has its moments, but isn't strong
5.0-5.9: Mediocre; not good, but not awful
4.0-4.9: Just below average; bad outweighs good by just a little bit
3.0-3.9: Definitely below average, but a few redeeming qualities
2.0-2.9: Heard worse, but still pretty bad
1.0-1.9: Awful; not a single pleasant track
0.0-0.9: Breaks new ground for terrible

Even this begs the question, what's the difference between an 8.1 and an 8.3 (and, what is really the difference between 'amazing' and 'spectacular', honestly)?  Still, it's pretty descriptive just to have this many number to verbal delineations.

[oneafroboy]

I'm listening to the album again. I'm liking it more the second time through. Tourniquet's a cool song. I still don't think there's a lot of diversity in the album. Verse-chorus-verse-chours-bridge-chorus. A booming chorus. The reserved verses. The crescendo-ing bridge. But it's not bad. I must have been in a mood when I listened to it before. (Funny how your mood affects how much you like an album or a song.) I think I will come to enjoy the album over time, although I don't think it will be among my favorites (I still find it very noisy, but that's all right, her voice pierces through it and brings out the melody.) 'Sides, many bands I hold in high regard now, I didn't like much at all when I first heard them. Two notable groups would be Bob Marley and U2. But I love them now and think there at the top of the music game. Go figure.  

[Josh]

Verse-chorus-verse-chours-bridge-chorus. A booming chorus. The reserved verses. The crescendo-ing bridge.

This is an excellent point, one that also irks me about Coldplay's Rush of Blood to the Head.

[Guest]

Ah yes, because no song with a verse-chours-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus format has any credibility whatsoever.  I'd like to thank all the music snobs for reminding us about that.

[bloop]

Ah yes, because no song with a verse-chours-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus format has any credibility whatsoever.  I'd like to thank all the music snobs for reminding us about that.

It isn't about credibility, but about creativity.  I personally think one can use that structure to create a good song, or to create a pretty nondescript song and usually, unfortunately, it is the latter.

[Vlad!]

Eh, everyone has their own opinion. But since a lot of music reviewing tends to devolve into a "I like this and don't like that" thing, let me try to quantify some things I enjoy about Fallen:

-They don't bash you over the head with what they want to say
-They have a female lead who doesn't try to sell albums through lusty, throaty singing and steamy lyrics
-They don't have a scantily-clad band member on the front
-They obviously have talent

And, lest I turn reviewing into something more logical than it really is, I should also say that I just freaking like their songs, and no amount of logical persuasion can change the fact that I smile when I pop their CD in the drive.

[oneafroboy]

As I said in my first post, if you like it, cool. That's why there's all types of music.

And to address the issue of verse-chorus songs... Of course, verse-chorus is the main staple for most rock songs. There's nothing wrong with verse chorus. Some songwriters use it better and more creatively than others. The Beatles for instance. I love them, and a lot of their songs are verse-chorus. My point was that many pop songs (in this case, the songs on Fallen) have the same kind of verse-chorus songs. And with the type of music they play, for me, it gets old. It's not being snobbish. It's just my opinion. As I said, they're not bad, and I don't dislike 'em. They're all right. But Vlad! likes 'em, and that's cool. Please refer to the first line of the post.

Hope that made everything clear.

--the Afro

PS: I agree with your quantifications of Fallen. They definitely have admirable characteristics.  

[RokrantheGreat]

Eh, everyone has their own opinion. But since a lot of music reviewing tends to devolve into a "I like this and don't like that" thing, let me try to quantify some things I enjoy about Fallen:

-They don't bash you over the head with what they want to say
-They have a female lead who doesn't try to sell albums through lusty, throaty singing and steamy lyrics
-They don't have a scantily-clad band member on the front
-They obviously have talent

And, lest I turn reviewing into something more logical than it really is, I should also say that I just freaking like their songs, and no amount of logical persuasion can change the fact that I smile when I pop their CD in the drive.

I agree completely, Vlad!. Well said.

[bloop]

I like them for the same reasons Vlad! noted, but I don't understand the fever-pitch love of them at this point.  They aren't that good.

[Josh]

I don't really hear anything new or original in their music, which is why I'm not a big fan. But I freely admit that I find their radio singles to be a ton of fun.

[Vlad!]

I like them for the same reasons Vlad! noted, but I don't understand the fever-pitch love of them at this point.  They aren't that good.

Maybe the world of pop culture (sometimes I think pop culture is a disease rather than an artistic category, but I digress) is subconsciously desiring something deeper and better than the tripe that is normally pushed by pop artists, and Evanescence provides that. Maybe they don't do as good a job as some, but they're more 'pop-friendly' than any of the patron bands of this phorum, so they'll have to do.

[oneafroboy]

I dunno. The Beatles were and *are* pretty pop-friendly. (At one time, the Beatle's One Cd was selling like 3 copies a second or something outrageous like that...and it was basically a compilation CD.) But I'm sure you mean modern, contemporary music.

And you may be right. Coldplay's pretty radio friendly, but that's another topic.  =)  I will agree with, Evanesence is pretty pop-friendly and is one of the best out there on the Top 40 lists. But then again, U2's Beautiful Day made Song of the year in 2000. They're not topping the charts like your other pop bands, but they're getting airplay, that's for sure. I would also mention Lifehouse; and Switchfoot is an up and coming band in the charts...but, I don't think you were talking about them when you were talking about "patron" bands.  

[murlough23]

That's good advice, and I agree. I certainly wouldn't write a  review based on one listen. I'm just giving my first impression. =)

Actually, Josh, I'd love to see you write a review on that album. I know the music didn't impress you and all... but it seems a few lyrics struck a chord. And I still think you should hear Origin some time. Maybe I'll burn you a copy.

[murlough23]

And, lest I turn reviewing into something more logical than it really is, I should also say that I just freaking like their songs, and no amount of logical persuasion can change the fact that I smile when I pop their CD in the drive.

That's pretty much my explanation... that and the fact that I like unraveling their lyrics. I know, anyone can do the whole "Is it about God or just about a boy?" business, but even if the whole thing was just about ex-boyfriends, it's more the "Trying to unravel what happened and freed myself from it" type of lyrics than the "You broke up with me and you SUCK!" type of lyrics.

Also, I heard the band's indie material before I heard Fallen, and I think Origin showed more diversity. They're capable of it... I think they just got scared and took the easy way out on their big debut. It seems to me that Amy and Ben are far too easily swayed by their perceptions of public opinion. "Oh, they'll like us better if we just have a lot of chugging guitars, so don't play too many solos there, Ben. And for God's sake, don't tell them we're f***ing Christians!"

About my review... I started out with 4.5, had Josh knock my rating down to 4, and apparently I never updated the text. My mistake. I do use a 1-5 star system where 1 is the worst and 3 is absolutely middlin'.

Funny quote from Any Lee... something about when she was being asked how she felt regarding fans' and naysayers' speculations over whether they were "Christians" and what they should be doign on their album if they were... I can't remember the whole thing, but it basically ended with her saying that she had been thinking about this issue and decided to dedicate a song to all of these people...

"It's called KISS MY F***ING ASS IN D MINOR!!!"

[DvChWi]

I must confess, I downloaded and listened to their two radio songs, My Immortal and Bring Me to Life.  I really can't judge songs by the way they are on the radio(bad sound quality), but through my headphones, they sound much better.  To tell the truth, I actually like the songs.  My Immortal is my personal favorite, except for the annoying random pauses with the weird swishing noise.  I have no idea what those are for. :angry:

[murlough23]

To tell the truth, I actually like the songs.  My Immortal is my personal favorite, except for the annoying random pauses with the weird swishing noise.  I have now idea what those are for. :angry:

That was a ploy on either the band's part or the label's part to thwart downloading of the actual recordings while still giving you a good idea of what the songs sound like. Which of course wouldn't have worked if the people who downloaded those files didn't keep them around for others to download! Morons.