Over the Rhine-- The Trumpet Child

[bloop]

saith the Linkin Park fan.     I know, I know.  I'm just kidding - I know you're not the biggest fan of that aspect of their music.

The point I was making is that I did consider the lyrics (they are present in a very forward way, almost like a sing-a-long, so I don't know how it isn't possible to ignore them), and they didn't strike me as great poetry, but it did fit in a kind of silly sense.

[murlough23]

saith the Linkin Park fan.

Um, did you see how heavily I criticized the lyrics on their new one?

The point I was making is that I did consider the lyrics (they are present in a very forward way, so I don't know how it isn't possible to ignore them), and they didn't strike me as great poetry, but it did fit in a kind of silly sense.

And I'm not discrediting that completely; it's more a matter of what kind of silliness will amuse each of us individually. It's cute but also kind of cloying.

NP: "Praise and Adore (Some Live Without It)", Wavorly

[bloop]

Um, did you see how heavily I criticized the lyrics on their new one?

Yeah, that's why I edited my little jibe to make sure you knew that, like Over the Rhine, I'm just playing.

[Aaron]

you're on a roll.

[murlough23]

Yeah, that's why I edited my little jibe to make sure you knew that, like Over the Rhine, I'm just playing.

I guess "getting stoned" just isn't an analogy that I find funny or playful, even if it's intended as such.

(The phrase "Smoking crack", on the other hand, amuses me greatly. So I am aware that my sensibilities are a bit arbitrary here. I still don't think I'd want someone to compare lovemaking to smoking crack, but when the phrase is used to imply that someone is being stupid, it's rather apt.)

Maybe my problem is OtR's consistency with themselves. Last time they used being stoned as a metaphor for something, it clearly wasn't something good. (And I loved that song.)

NP: "Time I Understood", Wavorly

[bloop]

So I take it you wouldn't like "Rainy Day Woman #12 & 35".  Ah, to have lived in the 60s.

Anyway, lovemaking is a trigger for the release of a certain mind-altering substance (endorphins, I think), which causes a sense of euphoria which would, of course, be a very natural high.  I may not have all the science right here , but . . . oh crap, now you've got me over analyzing.

[murlough23]

So I take it you wouldn't like "Rainy Day Woman #12 & 35".  Ah, to have lived in the 60s.

I have no idea whose song that is, but you've kind of set me up to expect the worst now.

Anyway, lovemaking is a trigger for the release of a certain mind-altering substance (endorphins, I think), which causes a sense of euphoria which would, of course, be a very natural high.  I may not have all the science right here , but . . . oh crap, now you've got me over analyzing.

I'm pretty sure lovemaking doesn't kill brain cells, though maybe that only happens if done frequently and compulsively. Obviously some further research is warranted. 

But I don't know that we really need to analyze it that deeply. The bottom line is that I'm not a big fan of drug metaphors for something that is supposed to be a good thing. If I get annoyed with Christian artists use drug metaphors to describe one's relationship God, then it's only fair to also find it problematic when drug metaphors are used by any artist to describe a healthy romantic relationship.

Of course, the Song of Solomon does compare a lover to wine, and I'm pretty sure the intoxicating effect of wine was a key component of that metaphor, so perhaps comparing love/sex to drugs is simply a modern extension of such an analogy. For some reason I don't mind the drunknness analogy (see DerekWebb's "Better than Wine"), but talking about being stoned just seems really unclassy to me.

[Aaron]

Bob Freakin Dylan!

[murlough23]

Bob Freakin Dylan!

*Looks up lyrics*

Oh yeah, I know that song. Forrest Gump Soundtrack. Someone put it on one night while a bunch of us were playing cards at this Christian camp I was working at one summer. This song came on and we all exchanged weird looks around the table. "Maybe this isn't the best thing to be listening to." So we skipped it.

Now that I'm older and I try not to have knee-jerk reactions to things I haven't taken a closer look at, I'll admit to being amused by the delivery of the song. It's not my favorite thing in the world because I've never been a fan of Dylan's voice, but the wackiness and his tendency to mumble kind of work for this one. The lyrics themselves are pretty elementary, actually, but that sounds like about as much as you'd be able to come up with when stoned, so it works. (A lot of Dylan lyrics actually don't strike me as all that brilliant, but I get that he was trying to be more blunt in getting his point across, and I haven't heard that many of his songs, just the occasional classic that got covered here and there.)

The real question is whether "everybody must get stoned" is something to be celebrated or something to be feared. Dylan's kind of telling you that "they'll stone you", so it's open to interpretation. It sounds to me like it's something that's happening against your will, and it's not a good thing, though you'll probably be too stoned to realize it.

[bloop]

I'm pretty sure lovemaking doesn't kill brain cells

Neither do the natural substances in the quantities that the body produces them.  I'll hook you up with a link if you like (I know it's Wiki, but the links and studies are pretty interesting).

Oh yeah, I know that song. Forrest Gump Soundtrack.

Nice as that is, Blonde on Blonde is better.

The real question is whether "everybody must get stoned" is something to be celebrated or something to be feared. Dylan's kind of telling you that "they'll stone you", so it's open to interpretation. It sounds to me like it's something that's happening against your will, and it's not a good thing, though you'll probably be too stoned to realize it.

I've always taken it as something negative in context, delivered in such a way as to fool his audience.  In that way, it's hilarious to me.

a lot of Dylan lyrics actually don't strike me as all that brilliant, but I get that he was trying to be more blunt in getting his point across

Redefine brilliant, then.  He's the equal or better as a lyricist compared to anyone else we talk about.  Yes, he can blunt, but usually poignantly so.  In the 60s, it was all about having something important to say, and he did.  In the late 60s, people were wanting something a little more esoteric, and he showed himself capable of that as well.  He's can do cryptic and he's capable of getting to the point quickly as well.  I know your experience is mostly limited to his hits, but even those (and sometimes particularly those) are the very model of an artist meant to be taken seriously and discussed.  You'd be hard-pressed to find an artist that doesn't respect him on that level.

OK, and he's also off-topic.

[murlough23]

Yeah, I really don't care enough about any of this to argue it any further, so let's get back on topic.

[bloop]

Yeah, I really don't care enough about any of this to argue it any further, so let's get back on topic.

There'd be no need to argue it any further whether you cared to or not. 

But, besides, you deserve a little bit of a break.  After all, you do like "Don't Wait for Tom".

[murlough23]

There'd be no need to argue it any further whether you cared to or not.

Well, there's no "need" for any of these discussions to be taking place, but I assume we're involved in them because we find them interesting.

Let's just say that you can sometimes have a profound effect on people with lyrics that aren't particularly profound, and that takes a special talent. I meant no disrespect to Dylan, even if the limited amount of stuff I've heard from him generally doesn't fit my personal perferences.

But, besides, you deserve a little bit of a break.  After all, you do like "Don't Wait for Tom".

I'm as surprised as you are about that one.

Back on topic, I need to actually go out and buy this album. I just haven't had the chance to figure out who's actually caring it; for-fun errands have had to take a back seat to more urgent errands this week.

NP: "Nothing Is Innocent", Over the Rhine

[bloop]

Let's just say that you can sometimes have a profound effect on people with lyrics that aren't particularly profound, and that takes a special talent. I meant no disrespect to Dylan, even if the limited amount of stuff I've heard from him generally doesn't fit my personal preferences.

I'm sure that first statement is true, but I'm struggling to grasp what in the world it has to do with Bob Dylan the vast majority of the time.

Back on topic, I need to actually go out and buy this album. I just haven't had the chance to figure out who's actually caring it; for-fun errands have had to take a back seat to more urgent errands this week.

I'm still waiting for it to be mailed to me.  If my wife went for the CD version, it would likely already be here.

[murlough23]

I'm sure that first statement is true, but I'm struggling to grasp what in the world it has to do with Bob Dylan the vast majority of the time.

If you want to start another thread and post a lyric that exemplifies what Dylan's writing style is like "most of the time", be my guest. I'm not going to continue it here.

[murlough23]

Here's my review of The Trumpet Child. Upon closer analysis, I had no choice but to upgrade it to a B+.

http://www.epinions.com/content_405476773508

[Aaron]

No offense, but I really think you dropped the ball on that cd.  It's an A-/A level album.

[murlough23]

No offense, but I really think you dropped the ball on that cd.  It's an A-/A level album.

No offense, but I don't take most of what you say seriously anyway.

[bethany]

The assery, it makes me lol.

[bloop]

It makes me AWOL.

[enemy anemone]

it doesn't make much logical sense when you think about it, because if a song were President, then shouldn't all of those other positions be filled by songs instead of the people who wrote them?

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has thought this.  another nitpicky issue I have with the song is the phrase "pass it around on an mp3". I always think "pass it around on an mp3 player or pass it around as an mp3 file?" it just bugs me like improper usage of "you and I" or "try and".

[murlough23]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has thought this.

You're the one who made me think of it, actually.

another nitpicky issue I have with the song is the phrase "pass it around on an mp3". I always think "pass it around on an mp3 player or pass it around as an mp3 file?"

OK, that one totally slipped by me. I guess it should be "pass it around as an mp3". Though I have to laugh at the thought of illegally downloading the President. They'd have to invent some pretty kick-ass DRM for that one.

(Interestingly, you can't download the President, but you can download Presidents of the United States of America.)

[murlough23]

The assery, it makes me lol.

OK, this time with less assery.

Wanderer has every right (as of course anyone does) to disagree with my opinion, but to actually come forth and say "You screwed up because your opinion is not exactly the same as mine" just crosses the line of what I'm willing to tolerate. I didn't drop any ball, dude. I just value different things. We're talking about the difference between a B+ and an A- here.

[bloop]

it doesn't make much logical sense when you think about it, because if a song were President, then shouldn't all of those other positions be filled by songs instead of the people who wrote them?

Yeah, I got a bumper sticker that said "If a Song Could Be President:  Bergquist/Detweiler 2008".  At first, I had a similar reaction.  Shouldn't it say "The Trumpet Child/Firefly 2008", or something like that? 

Metaphorically, though, I came to the realization that it depends on what kind of a President they're really talking about - or, to what extent a good song shapes policy.  I'm now pretty sure they aren't envisioning the first non-sentient governmental autocrat.  One could see it as those positions being filled by the song's influences.  Or, alternatively, the demands of the song is choosing who it allows to influence it and enforce its ideals.  In terms of actual named power, the people are still key, but the ideals of the government authority, unlike the current or past administrations, are truly worthy of the word. 

If they mean it exactly literally, then it might as well be "If a Canadian Could Be President", and nobody really wants that.

I think you're both wrong.  By both, I mean all of you.  And by all of you, I mean everyone but me.   

It would be fun to think about which literal songs one might want to run our country.  I'm thinking it would be scary to have "Baby Got Back" as the new boss.  So, hmm, I'll go with "If a Song Could Be President" for President.  Hey, I like the song's ability to diplomatically delegate power back to the people.

[enemy anemone]

Though I have to laugh at the thought of illegally downloading the President.

bwahaha! that made me laugh out loud, for reals.

You're the one who made me think of it, actually.

hehe, cool. I was confused for a bit since I didn't remember posting about it here, but then I found that I did in the concert journals thread. lovely memory I have.

Yeah, I got a bumper sticker that said "If a Song Could Be President:  Bergquist/Detweiler 2008".  At first, I had a similar reaction.  Shouldn't it say "The Trumpet Child/Firefly 2008", or something like that?

I got that bumper sticker too, because I like the Bergquist/Detweiler part.

Metaphorically, though, I came to the realization that it depends on what kind of a President they're really talking about - or, to what extent a good song shapes policy.  I'm now pretty sure they aren't envisioning the first non-sentient governmental autocrat.  One could see it as those positions being filled by the song's influences.  Or, alternatively, the demands of the song is choosing who it allows to influence it and enforce its ideals.  In terms of actual named power, the people are still key, but the ideals of the government authority, unlike the current or past administrations, are truly worthy of the word.

yeah, when I'm not confuzzling myself with the literalness of the metaphors I can understand what they mean. but I still manage to confuzzle myself with the literalness of the metaphors. XD

I think you're both wrong.  By both, I mean all of you.  And by all of you, I mean everyone but me.

ahhhh this sounds like a quote but I can't figure out where it's from, and google isn't helping me. if it's original it deserves to be a quote.

[bloop]

It sounds like something Stephen Colbert would say, although I know if I stole it from someone, it wasn't on purpose.

[murlough23]

One thing that does strike a chord with me in "If a Song Could Be President" is how a lot of musicians are trying to motivate people to vote for change. Music has a certain power over people that plain old political debate often doesn't - we've become disgruntled with the political process but can easily unite around a favorite musician, and I think the favorite musician probably does more to shape our personality than the government does.

At the same time, the song kind of turns things upside down and makes us wonder if these musicians who we tend to take political advice from would actually know what the heck they're doing in those sorts of political positions. My guess is no, since I don't think most of 'em would be cut out for it, since their talents lie in other areas. I don't think OtR is seriously suggesting for a suggest that Neil Young could be a Senator, but one of his songs probably has the power to reach someone who would be closed off to whatever your average senator has to say.

[bloop]

Well, that would be a very different interpretation than your original, where Neil Young = some song by Neil Young, Emmylou = some song by Emmylou Harris.  It would make some sense like that as well, and you've heard people refer to songs that way.  "Have you heard the new Jars" - that kind of thing.

[murlough23]

Well, that would be a very different interpretation than your original, where Neil Young = some song by Neil Young, Emmylou = some song by Emmylou Harris.  It would make some sense like that as well, and you've heard people refer to songs that way.  "Have you heard the new Jars" - that kind of thing.

Yeah, I'm trying to allow for the different possible ways that the song can be interpreted, in order to make more sense of it.

On the other hand, it's probably lighthearted fun with a little bit of their own political angst behind it, so I may not need to read that much into an analogy that I doubt they thought through so specifically.

[latinchic]

I happen to like "Entertaining Thoughts", even though neither the melody nor the music are particularly original for an OtR song.  Granted, I might enjoy it more personally because I'm thinking of someone when singing it.  Also, I will concur with whoever mentioned "If A Song Were President" being a little weird....because it makes sense, and yet it doesn't make sense.  But I'll allow the artistic license, no biggie.

LOVE "Don't Wait for Tom" thoroughly. 

LIKE "I Don't Want to Waste Your Time", but I'm too happy-go-lucky to listen to it continuously; I have to skip it often.  Agree with the message though.

I really do not know yet where this record ranks among my OtR collection.

latinchic!!

Well hello there.  I remember seeing your screenname, howdy do?

[Josh]

Asheville's Grey Eagle tavern and club may well be the hottest venue on the planet-- and that's not slang; the temperature was really, really high last night, and Over the Rhine did nothing to cool it down, playing another smokin'-hot set with their dynamite touring crew, drummer Mickey Grimm and multi-instumentalist Jake Bradley. (And yes, they did play "Fever.")

Highlights, as usual, proved to be Mickey's gravity-defying drum solo; a spirited, tipsy take on "Hush Now"; a gleefully fun read of the new fan favorite, "Don't Wait for Tom"; full-band takes on a couple of Ohio beauties; and Linford's extended piano solo on "The Trumpet Child." More than anything, though, I continue to be impressed with the chemistry between these musicians, the incredible rapport that exists between Linford and Jake and Mickey, the smoothness of their improvisation, how tight all the songs conitnue to sound.

Anyway, they played through almost all of The Trumpet Child, minus "Desperate for Love," plus one song from Drunkard's Prayer ("Born"), two from Ohio ("Suitcase" and the title song), and a pair of their most beloved cover songs ("Fever" and "Orphan Girl").

As best as I can remember, the setlist was something like this:

I Don't Wanna Waste Your Time
Fever
Born
I'm on a Roll
Let's Spend the Day in Bed
Nothing is Innocenct
Entertaining Thought
The Trumpet Child
Who Am I Kidding?
Trouble
Suitcase
Ohio
Orphan Girl

Hush Now
If a Song Could Be President
Don't Wait for Tom

[murlough23]

Highlights, as usual, proved to be Mickey's gravity-defying drum solo

I thought only the Newsboys did those.

NP: "O Little Town of Bethlehem", Jars of Clay

[murlough23]

Oooooooohhhhhhh! Now I get it! Coppin' up a rooster for a pullet surprise!

All this time I thought it was "Pulitzer Prize". And that made no sense to me whatsoever.

NP: "Down to the River", Heath McNease

[enemy anemone]

[more info than anyone wants to know]

heh, that's funny because I had heard the pullet surprise pun years ago in a chicken-raising context. with most breeds of chickens, you can't tell the male baby chicks from the female baby chicks till they're "teenagers" so to speak. perhaps a chicken you thought was a pullet (young hen) turns out to be a cockerel that didn't develop as fast as his brethren. if you want to keep a flock of laying hens then you cull out most/all of the cockerels, so if there's one that got away (heh, a Tom Waits line), it's a pullet surprise.

so to me, the line in the song still makes no sense. you already know it's a rooster. how then can it be "for a pullet surprise"?

[/more info than anyone wants to know]

[murlough23]

Such a baffling line would cause me to ridicule most lyricists, but fortunately Over the Rhine manages to pullet off.

NP: "The Glory of It All", David Crowder Band

[badgirlslament]

WOW..as  someone who is a HUGE OtR fan (6.5GB worth of music.. haha) I'm shocked that so many  of you who are younger seem to be fans... that's pretty sweeeet!!

[dgp11776]

Yeah, they are a favorite of most around here, teens and fogeys alike.

Welcome to the Phorum!

[badgirlslament]

thanks!

[Aaron]

Yeah, they are a favorite of most around here, teens and fogeys alike.

Welcome to the Phorum!

What are us twenty-somethings referred to as? LOL

[murlough23]

What are us twenty-somethings referred to as? LOL

The fogeys. Which means I'm ancient.

NP: "Empty Space", Lifehouse