Are Our Tastes Diverging?

[murlough23]

I've wondered a lot lately, as I post sporadic comments on this forum, whether all of our musical tastes are diverging. I guess having similar tastes was never a requirement to join this board in the first place, so I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it seems more rare these days that there's a single album or artist we're all raving about, or even really listening to. Maybe it's just due to our small numbers, but it seems like many times, one person will start an enthusiastic thread about a particular artist, and not get much of a response. Maybe it's a lack of time? I'd like to check out everything that everyone recommends, but I know I have limited time and patience, plus my own favorites to keep up with. I think it's great that we all have such unique tastes, but there are some fairly obscure artists that, if I can't discuss 'em with you guys, I'm not sure who I can discuss 'em with.

I suppose part of it has to do with some very formative years that a few Phorum members have gone through since we first met. It's understandable that Josh and Wildcat (for example), both having crossed the threshold into adulthood since I met them, like very different things about music now than they did 5-6 years ago. And I would say that my participation in the Phorum has caused my tastes to morph, too - not necessarily to fit the tastes of others present here, but it's definitely encouraged me to look more deeply at the construction and the intuition behind music, and take a little more time trying to appreciate unique efforts by artists who are trying to give us something a little more "off the beaten path". (At the same time, I still cling strongly to some of my mainstream faves. I think most of us do.)

My snarky attitude of late has probably contributed somewhat to the lack of discussion, and the antagonistic nature of some of the discussions. For that, I apologize.

But there is a silver lining - I have a lot to thank you guys for. If not for some of the discussions and recommendations I've had with Phorumers in the past year or so, I'd never have discovered or looked more deeply into the following artists:

Deas Vail
Bjork
Anathallo
Pearl Jam
Rosanne Cash
Copeland
Robert Randolph & the Family Band
Meg & Dia

Thanks for those, guys.

[bloop]

I thought our tastes have always been somewhat divergent, but I see what you're talking about.  This year's Illinois (that is, something everyone here can enthusiastically get behind) just doesn't exist. 

I try to check recommendations out, too, but I'm getting pretty slow at this, I think.  Sometimes, you just want to kick back and listen to an older favorite.

[murlough23]

I thought our tastes have always been somewhat divergent, but I see what you're talking about.  This year's Illinois (that is, something everyone here can enthusiastically get behind) just doesn't exist.

The Shepherd's Dog appears to be a candidate. So far, no one here who's heard it has had a reaction that was anything less than, "Wow". But that's definitely a rare occurence these days, and I don't think everyone who wants to hear it has heard it yet.

I try to check recommendations out, too, but I'm getting pretty slow at this, I think.  Sometimes, you just want to kick back and listen to an older favorite.

I completely understand. Being constantly in evaluation mode gets exhausting. I'm fortunate in that I have a desk job and I can put headphones on and work while listening to the music. But to really give something new the attention it needs means that I either need to listen to it while performing more of a mindless task, or save it for home (where I actually haven't listened to as much music lately due to the need to constantly have the windows open - meaning I annoy the neighbors - or have the AC on, which drowns everything that's not cranked up extremely loud, thus causing me to miss a lot of nuances). If I'm in the middle of some fairly hardcore and logic-intensive development, I have to go with old favorites. (Most people would prefer silence in that case, but it puts me to sleep.)

NP: "This Place Is Painted Red", Deas Vail

[bloop]

Being constantly in evaluation mode gets exhausting.

True, not to mention that once the school year starts, most of my music listening happens at school over my planning period - not exactly ideal for critical listening.

[murlough23]

True, not to mention that once the school year starts, most of my music listening happens at school over my planning period - not exactly ideal for critical listening.

I try to keep that in mind, when I've listened to an album once or twice and both times have been while I was working on something that required a lot of brainpower - some things that are very nuances and subtly brilliant can sound boring in passing. On the other hand, some music that works well in the background, just to get you through the day, doesn't hold up to more detailed scrutiny. There's a place for both, I guess.

I think most people just have a lot less time for music in general than I do. I think that's why most people are more hesitant to broaden their horizons - if they have very little time to spend on music, why risk wasting it on music they won't like? I'm not saying it's good to think that way, but since even you and I need to retreat to "familiar favorites" at times (and what would be the purpose of discovering them if they weren't compelling enough to return to again and again over the years?), I guess I'm realizing I need to be a lot more understanding.

I have a friend who used to love to get new music recommendations from me - she didn't always like what I suggested, but she'd check it out. That was when she was in school. Now she has a job that she has to commute to for close to two hours, with only a tape deck and radio in her car, and she has to consult patients in a pharmacy all day, so she can't put on music, and by the time she gets home, she's exhausted and barely has much in the way of free time, not to mention she can't get her laptop online so my attempts to transfer new music to her digitally have failed. It's not her fault. Her life is just packed. Unfortunately that means that she tends to think what she hears on Air1 and The Fish during the commute is the best that Christian music has to offer her.

[bloop]

The thing is, at work, I tend to put in new music as often as I put in the old and familiar, as if I'm really going to be able to multitask.  Pfft.   

[Wildcatblue7]

I don't have the time or money to check out lots of new stuff.  Just the sad fact of the matter.  So I don't contribute to discussion much.  Also, I haven't even heard of most of the people you all rave about--the few I have checked out I haven't liked much.  Truthfully I rarely read threads in this section anymore.

[murlough23]

Also, I haven't even heard of most of the people you all rave about--the few I have checked out I haven't liked much.

This is why I generally try to qualify my recommendations by saying you might like it if you like _______, or even say specific people here might be inclined to enjoy it, rather than giving a blanket "everyone must hear this album!" sort of plug.

[Josh]

Speaking for myself, I think my own tastes have actually become broader and more populist over the past few years. I'm much less focused on lyrics-- or, to be more precise, I'm more open to the idea that lyrics can serve a lot of different purposes-- and I've grown to love albums that excel in craft rather than ones that are experimental in any formal sense of the term (though I do still love albums that break grounds and are still, you know, listenable-- and I'd still put Kid A in my top 10).

So, I think a lot of my more recent discoveries are albums that a lot of pholks here would like, if given the chance. Josh Ritter's new disc is my second favorite of the year so far, and it's something that's easy to get into and will appeal to a lot of different tastes. (Murlough, DGP, and bloop would all like it a lot, I think.) And of course I'm still delighted with the new Arctic Monkeys, which is, quite simply, a sturdy, exhilarating rock and roll record.

[Aaron]

I still think you're overrating the Arctic Monkeys record.  It's not as good as their 1st album.

[Josh Powell]

I've been trying to listen to a lot of music that I wouldn't normally listen to, as well as smaller bands that nobody has ever heard of (or at least, I haven't ).

So that's taken priority over my normal listening habits.

Speaking of, I'm going to start a new thread about an album I found recently..

[ajyouthguy]

i'm not sure about 'diverging, but for me personally, over, say the last 3 years, my tastes have diversified a ton, and my interest in finding and exploring new stuff has increased a million times

[Brenden]

I've noticed myself getting into poppier music over the years. Nowadays the stuff I play most is melodic pop/rock with lyrics that don't make me feel insulted. My focus has always been on lyrics, except in cases like The New Pornographers where lyrics aren't the point, but it seems I'm not quite as big on them as I am on memorable melodies nowadays.

[Wildcatblue7]

I've diversified my musical portfolio considerably over the past few years.  I still have very clear favorites--but I'm a little more open to new things than I used to be, I think (hope).  Steely Dan, The Who, and probably The Police get the most playtime, and have for the past few years.  I think (once again, hope) that they're the musical building blocks that remain the same as the rest of the building, metaphorically speaking, changes.  For example, the last 10 songs played on my mp3 player....

Donald Fagen: Green Flower Street
Relient K: I'm Lion-O
A Perfect Circle: The Package
The Who: Behind Blue Eyes
Interpol: The Heinrich Manuever
Fugazi: Public Witness Program
Modest Mouse: Black Cadillacs
a-Ha: Take On Me
P.O.D.: Eternal
Pat Metheny Group: Eighteen

Yeah, that kind of mix wouldn't have EVER happened even three years ago.  Fugettabout when I first started posting here, when I basically listened to the same band under about 20 different names.  I don't listen to everything, not by a long shot, but I'm a lot more chill about it nowadays.  I would have eaten someone for lunch had they insulted one of my favorites back in middle school/early high school.  I just care less, I guess.  I also pay a lot less attention to lyrics than I used to.  If it's really, truly awful, yeah, it's hard to stomach, but I'm not expecting theological revelations from my music.  Anyway.

Besides all that pontification...ahem...I'm not sure The Phorum's tastes as a whole have ever been particularly cohesive.  I've always been an outlier, I know that.  Over the Rhine and U2 seem to be almost universally liked (once again, except me--although I've warmed up to U2 a little bit), but beyond that, this place has always been all over the map.  That's why I stuck around.  The diversity was a welcome switch from the other places where I talked about music.

[murlough23]

Fugettabout when I first started posting here, when I basically listened to the same band under about 20 different names.

  Good one.

Though your off-the-charts levels of fangirl excitement about a few of them encouraged me to check out one or two. I'm still glad you got me into He Is Legend, even if I really only like that one album. (Suck Out the Poison describes itself well if you remove three words from the title.)

In general, I think we've all done a pretty good job of getting beyond being stuck in a single genre and listening to every single band that genre has to offer (not that some of us were ever there in the first place). But still, those who seem to really be into certain genres that others aren't are usually good at pointing out an artist or two who may serve as a "gateway" for the rest of us.

I also pay a lot less attention to lyrics than I used to.  If it's really, truly awful, yeah, it's hard to stomach, but I'm not expecting theological revelations from my music.  Anyway.

Theological revelations aren't the only reason to pay attention to lyrics. I don't listen to music for that reason, either - if it's Christian music, it would be nice if it described God/faith/virtue/whatever in an interesting way that inspired me to reflect on truths I already knew in interesting ways. But I can tolerate it sometimes when it doesn't accomplish that, so long as I don't feel like I'm getting rote recitation of Sunday School lessons.

If it's "secular" music, the least I ask of it is that it not glorify atrocious behavior and not insult my intelligence. (Which is really the same thing I ask of Christian music.) Atrocious behavior can certainly be discussed, and sometimes the lead character in a song is a bit of a bastard, but I'm fine with that as long as the intent seems to be exposing the lie rather than reveling in it. (Even despite that, I can sometimes enjoy myself, but the music had better be really good in those circumstances.)

I don't like to play moral police with my music, but I have my limits. Aside from all issues of morality, I just want to see some creativity going into the lyrics if lyrics need be there at all. If you're just going to toss off some stock phrases to fill time, maybe you should just shut up and play your instrument instead.

Besides all that pontification...ahem...I'm not sure The Phorum's tastes as a whole have ever been particularly cohesive.

Point taken, though a lot of us used to be way more enthusiastic about CCM than we are now.

I've always been an outlier, I know that.  Over the Rhine and U2 seem to be almost universally liked (once again, except me--although I've warmed up to U2 a little bit), but beyond that, this place has always been all over the map.  That's why I stuck around.  The diversity was a welcome switch from the other places where I talked about music.

Somehow I don't think you'd ever be the type to get into sparse, intimate folk music, so I can see why Over the Rhine would be way off your radar. (Then again, I didn't think they'd be a band I could ever get into when I first heard them on the Roaring Lambs compilation, so you just never know.) U2 is pretty universally liked, but they've also risked enough over their 20-some years in the spotlight to generate a lot of mixed opinions. I think it would be hard to be a classic rock aficionado and not at least see the value of some of their best-loved songs, but that doesn't mean you need to be a huge fan. I think most people that like them (as with any popular band) are casually interested in their big hits, and haven't really gone deeper. I was that type of nominal U2 fan up until about 2001.

Anyway, I think you could easily make a case for why you dislike any of the artists who are popular around here, and nobody would fault you for it. Sometimes it's just a simple matter of "I see what they're trying to do and I aprpeciate the attempt, but it ain't my style."

[bloop]

I also pay a lot less attention to lyrics than I used to.  If it's really, truly awful, yeah, it's hard to stomach, but I'm not expecting theological revelations from my music.  Anyway.

I find that I pay attention to lyrics when they are just awful and when they are just brilliant.  Anything in between seems unremarkable one way or the other for me. 

Generally, the ways you've changed over the years has been for the better, I think.

Point taken, though a lot of us used to be way more enthusiastic about CCM than we are now.

I don't know.  A lot of people are still a lot more enthusiastic about CCM than anything I can conjure for it.

I would have eaten someone for lunch had they insulted one of my favorites back in middle school/early high school.

I think there's an inherent danger in criticizing music in that people will tend to think of it as a criticism of them.  Sometimes, they're even right that it is.

[murlough23]

I find that I pay attention to lyrics when they are just awful and when they are just brilliant.  Anything in between seems unremarkable one way or the other for me.

I pay attention to words when the grammar is bad. Case in point:

Generally, the ways you've changed over the years has been for the better, I think.

(Not that I never do that; I just thought the timing was amusing here.)

I guess I've listened to enough songs and read over enough sets of lyrics that I've started to find myself annoyed when a song seems to be using the same sort of stock phrasing as many other songs within the genre do, or is overly repetitive at the expense of giving any real insight into its meaning, or in general just doesn't give me anything interesting to say about it when reviewing it. I always want to make sure I at least touch on what a song sounds like (music) and what it says (lyrics, if applicable). I guess there's a special category where a song doesn't really have full verses of lyrics, but just some small phrases or mantras or whatever that just serve the picture being painted by the music. I generally don't criticize those sorts of songs for that, unless what's being repeated is just dumb.

I don't know.  A lot of people are still a lot more enthusiastic about CCM than anything I can conjure for it.

Relative to you, we're all pretty enthusiastic about it.

But I have very little faith in the CCM "industry" these days. There are scattered artists who are unabashedly Christian and play primarily to that market who I really love, but they are becoming few and far between, and sevein many cases, they're being forced underground or out into the mainstream, in an attempt to maintain their freedom and credibility.

I think there's an inherent danger in criticizing music in that people will tend to think of it as a criticism of them.  Sometimes, they're even right that it is.

I try not to take it that way, but every now and then, a diss directed at an artist I'm particularly fond of can sting a little. Usually that only happens when it comes with the implication that their music is for simpletons or something. Or when somebody's just ignorantly writing off an entire musical genre. "Ew, country music, that's for hicks!"

NP: "Rewind", Deas Vail

[bloop]

Relative to you, we're all pretty enthusiastic about it.

Well, there is Hurst.

More on lyrics, I think I find it's very hard to really listen to lyrics if the music is very strong - when there is just so much more to listen to.  I try to give things a good listen, paying closer attention to what is being said underneath all that colorfulness, but if that is the case, it's very hard to stay on task.

[murlough23]

Well, there is Hurst.

Yeah, Josh might even be beyond you on the "I'm sick of CCM" scale. Not that I blame either of you. Neither of you is biased to the point where you'll pass up a quality record that just so happens to be by a CCM artist.

More on lyrics, I think I find it's very hard to really listen to lyrics if the music is very strong - when there is just so much more to listen to.  I try to give things a good listen, paying closer attention to what is being said underneath all that colorfulness, but if that is the case, it's very hard to stay on task.

That's fascinating, actually. I do think there are certain songs where I'm so entranced with the music that it takes me a while to think about what's actually being said, but usually in that case, it's because the lyrics are vague and cliche (or the vocals are buried a bit in the production). If the music's that great, I can usually forgive an average lyric. But I'll reserve my biggest raves for the artists who manage to pull off both awesome music and excellent lyrics simultaneously.

NP: "This Place Is Painted Red", Deas Vail

[bloop]

I can't make a blanket statement about where my biggest raves will come, but I can say that I'll like it even more if the lyrics substantially add appropriate weight or levity to the music.  I do find it pretty interesting where the lyrics seem to be working against the mood of the music, undermining it - so I suppose that has a place as well.

[murlough23]

I can't make a blanket statement about where my biggest raves will come, but I can say that I'll like it even more if the lyrics are substantially add appropriate weight or levity to the music.  I do find it pretty interesting where the lyrics seem to be working against the mood of the music, undermining it - so I suppose that has a place as well.

True. It takes good songwriting to do either of those things effectively, though. As opposed to songwriting that's just there.

NP: "Medicate", Luna Halo

[bloop]

Songwriting is more encompassing than it's so often made out to be.  Fortunately, there's more to talented songwriting than words on a page.  Music remains the absolute essential - I think I can defend most anything I tend to gravitate toward in this way.

When I step back, though, I always find it interesting that I get into these little debates.  Virtually any artist I listen to has written lyrics that are well-respected within genre, and quite often respected beyond their little niche.