Things people do that make no sense

[Vlad!]

I don't even think "oh, pretty" when I hear mockingbirds. I just want to make them asplode with the power of my mind. At my parents' house there's always several annoying mockingbirds around, and there's one that's learned to imitate the sound of the telephone. It's not enough to fool them, but generally is enough to be annoying.

[enemy anemone]

I think that's hilarious.

as for critters that can be noisily annoying, mockingbirds aren't very high on my list. I prefer them to dogs, cicadas, crickets, and neighbors. since mockingbirds are loud and hang around closer to the house, they are less preferred than owls and whippoorwills, which seem to stay farther away and are also easier to tune out. faraway frogs and toads, too. but a toad that is in the window is not very easy to tune out so I think I would prefer the mockingbird. 

[RedcoatJones]

A cricket in the house has to be THE most annoying sound ... though I haven't heard a single cricket in the two years since we got our cats!

[Vlad!]

A cricket in the house has to be THE most annoying sound ... though I haven't heard a single cricket in the two years since we got our cats!

Although it's good that your cats are effective at pest control, it might make me hesitate before letting the cats lick my face!

[dgp11776]

You might want to hesitate for other, more important reasons.  Remember that cats don't use toilet paper. 

[murlough23]

Here's something my church does that makes no sense:

1) The worship band starts up while people are milling around in the foyer/back of the sanctuary, greeting each other.
2) After a song or two, the worship leader will ask everyone to turn and greet someone we don't know.
3) The worship band will play "background" music so loudly while we're all attempting to greet one another that it forces everyone to talk louder, thus making one's individual conversation with one's neighbor go something like this:

Person: "Hi, what's your name?"
Me: "Sorry, what?"
Person: "I said hi, what's your name?"
Me: "David."
Person: "Nice to meet you Steven, I'm (insert difficult-to-pronounce Chinese name here)."
Me: "Oh, I said David! My name's David! Nice to meet you too, uh..."
Person: "(Repeats difficult-to-pronounce Chinese name)"
Me: "Uh, yeah. Nice to meet you!"
Person: "So, what do you do for a..."
Worship Leader: "Isn't it great to be part of Christian fellowship? Let's all join hands and pray."

[phaith]

Something I will never understand is why some people let others 'think' for them, make decisions for them instead of coming to their own conclusions themselves.

One of the reasons that this annoys me, is that without fail I am asked to do the mental work for others (especially at work), it makes me nuts!    Think for yourself people! 

[enemy anemone]

from the other thread:

For example, you guys still use Imperial measurements, which make NO sense, while the rest of the world uses Metric. Now, in the Metric system, everything is based on ten, just like the dollar but for weight, length, volume, mass, temperature, everything! Sensible, no? And the date too.. why would you put the month first? Month, Day, Year is just illogical.

(be forewarned that the following could be extremely annoying and obnoxious. metric talk always makes me feel like being annoying about my anti-metricness.)

while I understand that the metric system is sensible and logical and everything since it is based on 10, I refuse to use it. I don't care if the rest of the world uses it; I don't care about the rest of the world. I care about me and the metric system doesn't work for me. I know this is mostly because I'm not used to it and if I got used to it then it would work for me. but I refuse to learn to get used to it. metric measuring cups and spоons are either too big or too small for what I want. forget about millimeters and centimeters. an inch is the right size for talking about the size of everydayish, smallish things. millimeters are too tiny and centimeters are also too small and annoying and how big is a decimeter anyway; much too big. same with liters. I don't want hundreds of milliliters of coffee, I want a one cup. actually more like one and a quarter cups. I don't want many milligrams or milliliters or whatever of sugar, I want a teaspоon. I mean, seriously! how hard is that?
the length of my hand from the base of my palm to the tip of my middle finger is 7 inches. the length between my pinkie knuckles (the two on the finger proper and not the fist knuckle) is one inch. I find this very practical for estimating the size of stuff. I am sure my pinkie knuckle length and hand have their equivalent metric measurements but I am also sure those would be annoying numbers. the foot is based on the measurement of a man's foot (or so they say). where did the meter come from? I think it came from outer space. the wiki (aka warticle) says this: "Historically, the metre was defined by the French Academy of Sciences as the length between two marks on a platinum-iridium bar, which was designed to represent 1⁄10,000,000 of the distance from the equator to the north pole through Paris. Today, it is defined by the International Bureau of Weights and Measures as the distance travelled by light in absolute vacuum in 1⁄299,792,458 of a second." well it's all very nice and scientific but it doesn't make much sense for measuring everyday things on earth. when you cut a pie, do you cut it into 10ths? no. how would you even do that. if you practice proper pie-cutting methodology, you cut it in 8ths. or possibly 6ths if you are piggish or if it is a small pie or if you are serving the Antichrist. (if you are serving a piggish Antichrist a small pie I advise giving him the whole thing.) anyway, my point is, if humans were meant to do everything by 10 we would have 10...um, never mind. I don't care! I don't like metric! I refuse to use it! plus it's also annoying that sometimes liter is spelled litre and meter is spelled metre, which I always pronounce in my head as li-truh and meh-truh because I am extra annoying! so there! and I don't want to hear about how all the above makes no sense! I am posting this in the things people do that make no sense thread! so there there! if you want to get after me, get after me for posting stuff that makes perfect sense in the things people do that make no sense thread! ha!

*I should note that if I ever get to live in outer space or another country I will make an attempt to learn metric.

[Vlad!]

The imperial system of weights and measures is very humanistic and is designed to measure standard things very well (example: the foot, which has no useful equivalent in si units). The SI (which is often called the metric system, when it's really just a metric system) is very useful for doing math with but kind of awkward when measuring everyday things.

I tend to use a mixture of both. I weigh small things in grams because the gram is useful, but I give human weights in pounds because nobody in the US has any idea how much a kilogram weighs. I measure small distances in meters because it's a useful size but large distances in miles (and speeds in miles per hour) because all my mental math works around miles when calculating trip lengths. I measure small things in whatever unit seems the most handy. I measure human height in whatever units the person I'm talking to is used to [1]. I prefer SI liquid measures because teasthingys and tablesthingys are really awkward, but most recipes use the latter so I move back and forth fairly easily.

Degrees Celsius will always make more sense than degrees Fahrenheit, however. I used to always use Celsius, but lately as a concession to intransigent or ignorant people I try to convert between the two to use whatever is most natural to the listener.

[1] Possibly interesting side note: in India, they use inches and feet to measure humans even though they use the SI. In Japan, they use centimeters.

[dgp11776]

when you cut a pie, do you cut it into 10ths? no. how would you even do that. if you practice proper pie-cutting methodology, you cut it in 8ths. or possibly 6ths if you are piggish or if it is a small pie or if you are serving the Antichrist. (if you are serving a piggish Antichrist a small pie I advise giving him the whole thing.)

Your post is probably my favorite post I've ever read on the Phorum.  And not only because I'm totally with you on the metric vs. normal measurement, but because it was hilarious.  Especially the quoted piece above.

[murlough23]

Degrees Celsius will always make more sense than degrees Fahrenheit, however. I used to always use Celsius, but lately as a concession to intransigent or ignorant people I try to convert between the two to use whatever is most natural to the listener.

Or else they might get annoyed and give you the third degree. Ha!

The thing that would be a difficult paradigm shift for if I had to switch to Celsius would be that I could no longer use groups of 10 as a quick shorthand for how hot/cold it is. The numbers are just far more useful in everyday speech when using Fahrenheit - "It's in the 40's" or "We're expecting triple digits" today just plain seems more dramatic and descriptive and likely to get you to prepare for the environmental conditions. In Celsius, there's no easy shorthand for the approximate temperature range, so you just have to give an exact number. You can't say "It's in the 20's" or "It's in the 30's", because chances are, it stays within one "temperature decade" for long periods of time.

[enemy anemone]

Your post is probably my favorite post I've ever read on the Phorum.  And not only because I'm totally with you on the metric vs. normal measurement, but because it was hilarious.  Especially the quoted piece above.

thank you, thank you very much.

I weigh small things in grams because the gram is useful

for some weird reason, yarn is often measured as yards/grams. except sometimes. I have learned that if a 4 oz. skein of yarn is the same price as a similar type of yarn that comes in 100 gram balls, the 4 oz. skein is the better deal. (100 grams = about 3.5 oz., which is is sometimes not enough for a pair of socks the height I like to make them.)

I used to always use Celsius, but lately as a concession to intransigent or ignorant people I try to convert between the two to use whatever is most natural to the listener.

did my habit of exclaiming something to the effect of "augh! Celkius!" whenever you would post temperatures in not-Fahrenheit have something to do with that?

[Vlad!]

did my habit of exclaiming something to the effect of "augh! Celkius!" whenever you would post temperatures in not-Fahrenheit have something to do with that?

No, not really. When it's online it's not a problem. I just got tired of having to derail a spoken conversation to explain that I wasn't using the gimpy American system (even people who were used to Celsius were confused because they were expecting me to use Fahrenheit).

[murlough23]

No, not really. When it's online it's not a problem. I just got tired of having to derail a spoken conversation to explain that I wasn't using the gimpy American system (even people who were used to Celsius were confused because they were expecting me to use Fahrenheit).

Well, in the event that it's ever 40 below outside, you wouldn't have to specify. But I think you'd have to move to Fairbanks or something.

[Vlad!]

I don't understand it when people don't keep their important stuff with them. I have multiple co-workers who get to their cube and immediately dump wallet, badge, pocket coins, whatever on the desk. I can sort of understand it if a woman doesn't want to carry her purse around everywhere (solution: take out the ten pounds of crap in your purse), but your wallet? Your badge? Especially if you're prone to forgetting these things (I've seen multiple co-workers leave their badge in their cube and have to go to building 1 and talk to the security guy just to get back in the freaking building).

[murlough23]

I don't understand it when people don't keep their important stuff with them. I have multiple co-workers who get to their cube and immediately dump wallet, badge, pocket coins, whatever on the desk.

I take off my watch and detach my cell phone and put both on my desk while I'm working (the watch gets in the way while typing and I can't hear the cell phone if I have headphones on, so if it's in front of me I'll see it light up), but my wallet and keys stay in my pocket at all times.

I can sort of understand it if a woman doesn't want to carry her purse around everywhere (solution: take out the ten pounds of crap in your purse)

Oh, man. Don't even get me started on women and their purses. (Too late!) My wife is the worst in this department. First of all, she has at least five purses, and I've lost count of the number of times we've been leaving the house, and it isn't until after we lock the door that she thinks to check her purse and realizes she left her keys in another purse. (That's led to her getting locked out a few times when I'm not there - you think by now she'd learn to always take the keys out of her purse and leave them in the same place when she gets home, then put them in the purse du jour the next time she leaves the house.) Second, she has similar problems remembering the whereabouts of her cell phone - which once again, she rarely checks until after we've left the house. Third, even when she does remember the cell phone, it's inexplicably always buried beneath the aforementioned ten pounds of crap in the purse. This usually results in a frenzy of digging in order to extract said phone before it stops ringing and goes to voicemail, which explains why I almost always have to call her twice to get through to her.

Yesterday, I think she learned her lesson, though. We went to pick my Mom up from the hospital and had to go through a metal detector on the way in, which required emptying our pockets. Most places with metal detectors will provide you with a little plastic bin for your loose items, but apparently this hospital was too ghetto for that, so I had no recourse but to put my wallet, cell phone, etc. in her purse. She also put the plastic bottle containing the beverage she was drinking in there, without remembering to tighten the cap, so when it got through on the other side, the purse was sideways and everything in it was soaked. My stuff was only superficially wet, but most of the ten pounds of crap (TM) in her purse were soaked, including her cell phone at the bottom, which no longer functions. I couldn't resist a little "I told ya so."

But on the other hand, when I need a handi-wipe or other sanitary item, she's always ready to whip one out of whatever purse she's carrying on a moment's notice.  So I can't be too hard on her.

(Related complaint: People who make women's pants without pockets. I can understand dresses and skirts not having them. But once you actually separate the legs, it's functionally the same thing that men wear, and therefore should possess the same level of functionality.)

but your wallet? Your badge? Especially if you're prone to forgetting these things (I've seen multiple co-workers leave their badge in their cube and have to go to building 1 and talk to the security guy just to get back in the freaking building).

We all wear our badges around our necks here. I had a co-worker who used to think that looked dorky, but he learned his lesson back when our offices were in a different building that had a security door requiring a badge between said offices and the bathroom. After countless times having to call me to be let back in after a bathroom break, I think he finally learned to keep his badge on his person at all times.

[Vlad!]

Heh, I hadn't even considered the multiple-purse aspect (I am, as already established, a man of few accessories).

Most of us wear our badges on our belts[1] with little zippy-things to bring them close to the proximity sensor.

I take off my watch and detach my cell phone and put both on my desk while I'm working (the watch gets in the way while typing and I can't hear the cell phone if I have headphones on, so if it's in front of me I'll see it light up), but my wallet and keys stay in my pocket at all times.

I'm just used to my watch (I've worn a watch, though not the same watch, pretty much every day since the third grade or so[2]) and my friends know to IM or e-mail me if they want to get in touch with me. I'm sure people who do these things, like you, have reasons for them--I just prefer to have as little overhead as possible associated with sitting down and getting up.

[1] You can always tell who the newbies are because they're the ones staring at people's crotches. It's not perversion; they're just trying to covertly read the names off the badges.

[2] I have a fabric watchband and yes, I do occasionally send it through the wash. I may be a man of few accessories, but I'm not that gross.

[murlough23]

I try to keep my accessories to a minimum as well. Actually, my watch battery died a few weeks back and I haven't felt motivated to get it replaced. My cell phone can tell time, but it's not on my wrist so I don't feel as strong of an urge to constantly be aware of exactly how many minutes are left in my work day.

[murlough23]

I've decided that the Internet can be a frustrating place for a person who actually knows how the Internet works. Consider the following example of a thing people decided to do that makes no sense:

half.com doesn't let you use the same handle as your Email address - i.e. if my Half.com/Ebay username is "murlough23", I cannot use the Email address "murlough23@gmail.com" in my contact information. This is a problem, because I'm trying to discontinue my old Email address "divad23@earthlink.net", and I created the Half.com account before I created the Gmail account. So basically I either have to keep the old Email adress, start up a third Email address just for this purpose, or create a brand new Half.com account.

I contacted their tech support about this seemingly needless rule, only to be given a condescending explanation about how they had done this in an attempt to protect users from phishing scams. So let me get this straight - you're trying to protecting poor innocent stupid shoppers from falling for schemes that are obvious to anyone remotely web-savvy, to the point where you can't make an exception for someone who is willing to waive liability should he be dumb enough to fall for such a scam? Apparently the logic is that someone can guess your Email address from your handle on a given website, and start spamming that address. Gee, don't you think this could have already happened to me on any number of other sites that don't have a problem with letting me have a username matching my Email address? (Never mind the ones that actually use the full address as the actual login name and don't give you any other option.)

This, to me, feels like an attempt to stop highway robbery by pulling over all incoming motorists and telling them they're only allowed to take an alternate route that is twice as long. In other words, THIS. MAKES. NO. SENSE. At some point, you have to stop the hand-holding and allow people to accept their own risks.

NP: "Clear Signal From Cairo", The Fiery Furnaces

[bethany]

In regard to women's pockets on pants, when they do actually have them, they are far smaller and more shallow than on men's pants. Seriously, I can't even comfortably fit my (relatively small) cell phone comfortably in the pockets of my jeans, whereas my husband can easily fit both of our phone in his. Pfft.

[murlough23]

In regard to women's pockets on pants, when they do actually have them, they are far smaller and more shallow than on men's pants. Seriously, I can't even comfortably fit my (relatively small) cell phone comfortably in the pockets of my jeans, whereas my husband can easily fit both of our phone in his. Pfft.

Hence my complaint about the way women's pants are made. The necessity of purses is not entirely the fault of women.

Though having a little carrier with a clip on it helps with the cell phone problem. That way you can clip it to your pocket regardless of its size. (My cell phone is rarely actually inside my pocket, unless I'm hiking or doing something where it might bang or scrape against something, but in those cases, there's likely no reception wherever I am anyway, so I just stash it in my backpack with the power off.) I had a tree steal my cell phone once, so I've learned to be careful.

But I promise not to be derisive about it if wearing cargo pants one day becomes a fashion trend among women. (It's certainly more attractive than those God-awful Capri pants. Friggin' Madonna.)

NP: "Navy Nurse", The Fiery Furnaces

[enemy anemone]

I don't have the multiple purse problem as I only use a Crumpler camera bag as a purse, but this sort of organizey thing looks like a good idea for those who like to switch purses often. 
except from my observations, the sort of person who has a very disorganized purse isn't likely to keep the organizer organized either.

re: too-shallow pockets--if you know how to sew and if the pockets are not patch pockets or otherwise stitched to the pant leg all the way around, you can cut off the lower part of the pocket and attach a bit of fabric to it to lengthen it.

I love cargo pants.

in other things that don't make sense, today I was trying to think think of a word and my brain got stuck on unrelated words that I knew weren't anything close. I was trying to remember the word Segway but could only think of rotor rooter, speedo, kiosk, tangram, and Ruritan. X_x

[murlough23]

I don't have the multiple purse problem as I only use a Crumpler camera bag as a purse, but this sort of organizey thing looks like a good idea for those who like to switch purses often.

Damn. You may have just found me the perfect anniversary gift. Unfortunately it's tomorrow and I'd have to order it online. Doh.
 

except from my observations, the sort of person who has a very disorganized purse isn't likely to keep the organizer organized either.

Heh. Indeed. On a similar note, we considered getting a remote dock for my wife's parents after a rather frustrating bout of not being able to find the DVD remote (and needing functions on it that wer not served by buttons on the DVD player itself) while visiting their extremely cluttered house. Then we realized they'd just always forget to put the remotes in the dock. Oh, the futility!

Which reminds me, of all the places to put a remote control when cleaning the house, why would a person think it's anything approaching logical to leave the TV remote right next to the TV?

re: too-shallow pockets--if you know how to sew and if the pockets are not patch pockets or otherwise stitched to the pant leg all the way around, you can cut off the lower part of the pocket and attach a bit of fabric to it to lengthen it.

Are you for hire?

I love cargo pants.

Just make sure to wear a belt if you transfer the ten pounds of crap from your purse to your pockets.

in other things that don't make sense, today I was trying to think think of a word and my brain got stuck on unrelated words that I knew weren't anything close. I was trying to remember the word Segway but could only think of rotor rooter, speedo, kiosk, tangram, and Ruritan. X_x

Paging Dr. Freud...

NP: "Restorative Beer", The Fiery Furnaces

[Vlad!]

I try to keep my accessories to a minimum as well. Actually, my watch battery died a few weeks back and I haven't felt motivated to get it replaced. My cell phone can tell time, but it's not on my wrist so I don't feel as strong of an urge to constantly be aware of exactly how many minutes are left in my work day.

Both my computers at work have the time prominently displayed on the screen, so it's not like I need a watch there. I don't have any clocks in my house, though, except for one so I know what time it is if I wake up at night.

I too love cargo pants, but I only use the cargo pockets when I'm biking.

Which reminds me, of all the places to put a remote control when cleaning the house, why would a person think it's anything approaching logical to leave the TV remote right next to the TV?

Well, at least you can find it there.

[enemy anemone]

Damn. You may have just found me the perfect anniversary gift. Unfortunately it's tomorrow and I'd have to order it online. Doh.

I don't know what sort of gifts your wife likes to receive (practical gifts or stuff-she-doesn't-need-but-just-wants) but it might be just as well. unless an organizer is something she expressly wants, it could come across as a less-than-subtle "you need to get your crap together" message.

Are you for hire?

sure, I could be hired to lengthen pockets. your local alterations place might do it too.

Just make sure to wear a belt if you transfer the ten pounds of crap from your purse to your pockets.

I've got just the thing: a tool belt! more pockety and loopy things for hauling crap!

nah, the only heavy items in my purse are my old heavy ipod, my gps gizmo, my cell phone, sometimes a camera, and too many coins. which can be left at home on the desk to gather dust.
hm, I could use a coin sorter as a gift.

my struggle with the word Segway reminded me of a bit from a James Thurber story:
"I had been trying all morning, in vain, to think of the name Perth Amboy. It seems now like a very simple name to recall and yet on the day in question I thought of every other town in the country, as well as such words and names and phrases as terra cotta, Walla-Walla, bill of lading, vice versa, hoity-toity, Pall Mall, Bodley Head, Schumann-Heink, etc., without even coming close to Perth Amboy. I suppose terra cotta was the closest I came, although it was not very close." XD

[murlough23]

I don't know what sort of gifts your wife likes to receive (practical gifts or stuff-she-doesn't-need-but-just-wants) but it might be just as well. unless an organizer is something she expressly wants, it could come across as a less-than-subtle "you need to get your crap together" message.

She's given me practical, organizational stuff before. I don't think she'd take it the wrong way. But I'm actually lucky this year in that I know what's on her wishlist, specifically, so I'll get something from that instead.

sure, I could be hired to lengthen pockets. your local alterations place might do it too.

Yeah, I was being facetious. I'm just lazy about taking in clothes that have ripped or need to be altered in some fashion. I'm just lazy in general, in case you hadn't figured that out already.

I've got just the thing: a tool belt! more pockety and loopy things for hauling crap!

Wearing a bunch of useless crap around your waist - now there's a great invention! You should call it the Futility Belt.

nah, the only heavy items in my purse are my old heavy ipod, my gps gizmo, my cell phone, sometimes a camera, and too many coins. which can be left at home on the desk to gather dust.

You should get the new iPod Pico. Holds 6.02 x 10^23 songs, and is too small to be seen with the naked eye. Perfect pocket accessory!

NP: "Rogues", Incubus

[enemy anemone]

bwahaha! Futility Belt!

knowing what's on someone's wishlist: priceless.

[murlough23]

In the interest of full disclosure, I heard the phrase "Futility Belt" on an episode of Darkwing Duck when I was a kid.

NP: "Pendulous Threads", Incubus

[Vlad!]

Futility Belt. I LOL'd.

Wish lists are pretty useful. I finally convinced Mark to get one so I could buy him stuff he would like that he doesn't already have. The only problem is that they're generally tied to the store so that if you buy the thingy outside of Amazon or whatever then it doesn't update.

[murlough23]

Futility Belt. I LOL'd.

Wish lists are pretty useful. I finally convinced Mark to get one so I could buy him stuff he would like that he doesn't already have. The only problem is that they're generally tied to the store so that if you buy the thingy outside of Amazon or whatever then it doesn't update.

I have a huge CD wishlist at Amazon that I use to keep track of (a) CDs I've downloaded and enjoyed listening to, but don't own a proper copy yet, and (b) CDs I need to replace after my car was broken into last year. That's usualy the #1 thing I want for any occasion that might make people feel compelled to buy me something. It means shopping for me is rather unimaginative, but hey, at least it's easy and cheap (I don't mind receiving a used CD as a gift so long as it's in good condition).

[murlough23]

Here's one that really sticks in my craw. I need to make a lane change, so I signal, check the adjacent lane for other cars, and give the car lagging slightly behind me in the other lane the change to notice that I want to merge into it. Figuring he shouldn't have to slow down on my account, I decelerate a tiny bit to allow him to pass me so that I can drop in behind him. THEN HE SLOWS DOWN. And he keeps pace with me all the way to the intersection that I now can't turn at because I'm not in the right lane.

Look, I can understand someone begin defensive when they see a car that wants to merge into "their" lane. That's classic aggressive driving in L.A. - you don't want to lose the precious seconds that it takes to let another car in, so you speed up and close the gap. It's idiotic, but I at least understand the logic. But if the other person slows to let you pass, and you're one of those Alpha Male type drivers who can't bear to let another car ahead of you, shouldn't you just pass them and then not have to give a rip about them any more? What is there to be gained in preventing the other driver from merging in behind you?

Of course, it's these same jackasses that go 10 mph under the speed limit in the fast lane on the freeway, and then do a kamikaze dive across 5 lanes of traffic when they realize they're about to miss their exit. Or that pull up next to a semi truck on a 2-lane highway and keep pace with it, thereby preventing anyone else from passing them.

NP: "Turn on the Lights", Sanctus Real feat. Peter York

[murlough23]

In Epinions' continued efforts to make posting reviews as difficult as possible, they've implemented a new WYSIWYG editor that generates HTML for you when you highlight text and bold or italicize it. That'd be all cool and everything, but then the validator tells you that your HTML is invalid when you try to submit a review after using this spiffy new tool. Basically, it assumes that a <br> tag in between <b> and </b> is invalid. Any idiot who knows even the tiniest bit of HTML can tell you that this is perfectly legitimate code - <br> is an isolated tag that needs no end tag. This is preventing people from posting reviews without either (a) removing all formatting and submitting everything as plain text, or (b) spending laborious amounts of time going through the actual HTML code (which can be brought up in a separate window) and making sure to close everything before each line break and then re-open it.

Even worse, attempts to complain about this on their message boards have mostly resulted in an indifferent response of, "It's not a big deal, here's an awkward hack you can use to work around it" from fellow users and developers. Um, the point of reporting a bug is to get it fixed, not to be told how to do technological gymnastics to avoid ever seeing the bug.

This probably should have gone under "Things Computers Do that Make No Sense", but in this case it's really the fault of the site designers who went and broke something that was perfectly fixed before, so I guess it's a two-fer.

NP: "Combinations", Eisley

[Vlad!]

In Epinions' continued efforts to make posting reviews as difficult as possible, they've implemented a new WYSIWYG editor that generates HTML for you when you highlight text and bold or italicize it. That'd be all cool and everything, but then the validator tells you that your HTML is invalid when you try to submit a review after using this spiffy new tool. Basically, it assumes that a <br> tag in between <b> and </b> is invalid. Any idiot who knows even the tiniest bit of HTML can tell you that this is perfectly legitimate code - <br> is an isolated tag that needs no end tag. This is preventing people from posting reviews without either (a) removing all formatting and submitting everything as plain text, or (b) spending laborious amounts of time going through the actual HTML code (which can be brought up in a separate window) and making sure to close everything before each line break and then re-open it.

Even worse, attempts to complain about this on their message boards have mostly resulted in an indifferent response of, "It's not a big deal, here's an awkward hack you can use to work around it" from fellow users and developers. Um, the point of reporting a bug is to get it fixed, not to be told how to do technological gymnastics to avoid ever seeing the bug.

Wow, that's really crappy on multiple levels.

It may be trying to do XHTML validation, which requires that br tags be self-terminating (

Code:

<br />

). That would still be awkward, but it might at least make sense.

Or maybe their validator is just borked.

Bonus WTF: this forum software doesn't allow you to enter HTML tags without the bbc code tag. If you enter them literally it will interpret them as HTML, and if you use HTML entities it will helpfully NOT convert those entities into characters.

Maybe after I get back from church I'll file a bug with SMF (and they'll give me the hand to the face like epinions did, probably).

[murlough23]

It may be trying to do XHTML validation, which requires that br tags be self-terminating (

Code:

<br />

). That would still be awkward, but it might at least make sense.

Yeah, it actually does make the br tag self-terminating. I had left the slash out for the sake of simplicity, forgetting who I was talking to.

Or maybe their validator is just borked.

That's it! Ironically, I think their validator would work just fine if not for the slash in the br tag. I think its problem is that it sees one tag open, then see what looks like another tag being closed, and assumes you're not nesting your tags properly. Keep in mind that this is all generated HTML, so most folks have no reason to care whether it generates a br with or without a slash. I just think it's a fair expectation that it generates HTML that, by the validator's own standards, isn't valid. The problem is that they brought in a third-party HTML editor but continued to use their own validator that they've had from back in the day. Before, it was a mixture of mostly plain text and a few HTML tags - we were allowed bold tags, italic tags, and A HREF tags to link to other reviews, and that was it. Each of those is a "tag pair" that has to be opened and closed, so validating was no problem as long as the writer nested their tags properly. br wasn't allowed - it wasn't needed because it knew how to interpret a carriage return. It was really pseudo-code with no WYSIWYG element back then, but it was easy to understand and it worked.

Bonus WTF: this forum software doesn't allow you to enter HTML tags without the bbc code tag. If you enter them literally it will interpret them as HTML, and if you use HTML entities it will helpfully NOT convert those entities into characters.

Interesting. I've been posting about this on Epinions' message boards and I must've taken for granted that I could use &lt; and &gt; everywhere.

NP: "Family Tree", TV on the Radio

[Vlad!]

That's it! Ironically, I think their validator would work just fine if not for the slash in the br tag. I think its problem is that it sees one tag open, then see what looks like another tag being closed, and assumes you're not nesting your tags properly. Keep in mind that this is all generated HTML, so most folks have no reason to care whether it generates a br with or without a slash. I just think it's a fair expectation that it generates HTML that, by the validator's own standards, isn't valid. The problem is that they brought in a third-party HTML editor but continued to use their own validator that they've had from back in the day. Before, it was a mixture of mostly plain text and a few HTML tags - we were allowed bold tags, italic tags, and A HREF tags to link to other reviews, and that was it. Each of those is a "tag pair" that has to be opened and closed, so validating was no problem as long as the writer nested their tags properly. br wasn't allowed - it wasn't needed because it knew how to interpret a carriage return. It was really pseudo-code with no WYSIWYG element back then, but it was easy to understand and it worked.

Actually, I think in this case the validator is performing correctly. The self-terminating tag syntax is valid XHTML, but is not valid HTML4.1 (I don't know if it's valid HTML5). This is because

Code:

<br />

expands to

Code:

<br></br>

and in HTML there is no such thing as a "closing br tag" (XHTML1, by contrast, requires closing tags for all opening tags). Therefore, the validator is correct in declaring a closing br tag as invalid HTML (but their WYSIWYG editor is obviously incorrect in generating this tag; or perhaps their editor is generating valid XHTML and they stupidly selected the wrong validator).

Interesting. I've been posting about this on Epinions' message boards and I must've taken for granted that I could use &lt; and &gt; everywhere.

It looks like this issue has been fixed in SMF 2.0 beta 4. I haven't created a comprehensive upgrade plan for getting the Phorum up to version 2 whenever it is released, but given that beta 3 came out a looong time ago then it looks like I have time (though now that I've said that they'll go gold tomorrow ).

[murlough23]

The HTML editor's fine. I can see what it generates and it makes sense. The validator isn't even a true "validator" - it's just a content parser that looks through and sees if the tags are matched. It doesn't (at least, not to my knowledge) change tags into other tags. It's just faulty in terms of what it assumes to be incorrect.

[Vlad!]

The HTML editor's fine. I can see what it generates and it makes sense. The validator isn't even a true "validator" - it's just a content parser that looks through and sees if the tags are matched. It doesn't (at least, not to my knowledge) change tags into other tags. It's just faulty in terms of what it assumes to be incorrect.

I wasn't saying that even a true validator changes tags around, I'm saying that the two are logically equivalent and that the self-terminating br element is not, to the best of my knowledge and experience, valid HTML4 (browsers will still render it correctly, but if you run your page through the W3C checker it will complain). Now, it sounds like their validator has other problems, but generating XHTML and then validating it for HTML is a big standards WTF.

[murlough23]

Sandwich places like Subway, Quizno's, etc. have employees who frequently do one of the following two things that make no sense to me:

1) Ask me what kind of sandwich I want, and on what kind of bread, then after I state my order, they get out the bread, cut it, and abruptly jump back to another sandwich for some other customer that they were previously working on. Then another employee comes by and asks me what kind of sandwich I want. Um, I already ordered, and when I have to repeat myself so frequently in such situations, it makes me feel like I wasn't being paid attention to the first time. It's not my fault your co-worker suddenly felt the need to multitask. Maybe your co-worker should have just said, "I'll be with you in a minute" and finished their previous task before starting on mine and then aborting it?

2) Demonstrate a distinct failure to actually cut my sandwich in half. Usually, one cuts something in half by cutting all the way through it. Or one leaves it whole and leaves it to me to decide whether I want to cut it. But what's with this cutting through the top half crap? That just leads me to pick up the sandwich thinking it's entirely cut into two halves, which results in an unexpected mess. Sheesh, either do it all the way or just don't bother.

I suppose they're making up the loss for those $5 footlongs by not actually bothering to train their employees any more.

NP: "Whisper Softly", Chasing Furies

[Vlad!]

I can see three reasons for #1:
* The sandwich in front of you is doing something time-consuming (like being toasted), so the employee is filling that time by cutting your bread, but then returns to the original sandwich when it's done in the oven.
* The employee really doesn't want to fix your sandwich, and getting out the bread and cutting it is an attempt to get someone else to fix your sandwich without looking too lazy.
* The employee was dropped on his or her head as a child.

For #2, I can just attest that it's sometimes difficult to tell whether the bread has been completely cut through. This is especially true if the knife is not extremely sharp so it squishes the bottom half of the loaf down onto the cutting surface instead of cutting through it.

When I order, I tend to do it in the order the employee has to work. I'll say "wheat bread", wait for the bread to finish, "cheddar cheese", wait for the cheese to finish, "Italian BMT".

[murlough23]

* The sandwich in front of you is doing something time-consuming (like being toasted), so the employee is filling that time by cutting your bread, but then returns to the original sandwich when it's done in the oven.

Probably the most logical reason, but in that case, it would be nice to at least tell the person who takes over, "He ordered a tuna sandwich".

I finally got fed up with this last week and told the guy who took over and asked for my order a second time, "I told the other guy I wanted a tuna sandwich before he walked away." Which I guess got my grievance out in the open, but then for the entire rest of the time he was building my sandwich, the poor guy was like, "Did he ask you if you wanted it toasted? Did he ask you what vegetables you wanted? Did he ask you if you wanted any other sandwiches?" He was probably afraid I was going to bite his head off if he made me repeat anything else. It wasn't his fault.

* The employee really doesn't want to fix your sandwich, and getting out the bread and cutting it is an attempt to get someone else to fix your sandwich without looking too lazy.

F that. Betcha he or she would feel a lot more productive if he or she were fired and his or her job were taken by someone who demonstrated a little more initiative. Especially in this economy.

* The employee was dropped on his or her head as a child.

Maybe, but in situations like this, I tend to assume it's a lack of willingness to use brainpower, rather than a lack of actual cognitive ability.

For #2, I can just attest that it's sometimes difficult to tell whether the bread has been completely cut through. This is especially true if the knife is not extremely sharp so it squishes the bottom half of the loaf down onto the cutting surface instead of cutting through it.

Sure, but how hard is it to check by attempting to pull the two halves apart?

When I order, I tend to do it in the order the employee has to work. I'll say "wheat bread", wait for the bread to finish, "cheddar cheese", wait for the cheese to finish, "Italian BMT".

I try not to barrage people with a big long memory game. My short-term memory sucks, so I'll usually just leave it to type of sandwich and bread, and leave all the specifics for when they get to that point in the sandwich creation process. The issue is more that if you're only going to handle one thing and then run off and hand it off to someone else, as least tell them what's left to do.