Bringing in the Sheaves: Your opinions on tithing

[murlough23]

I was just curious: What are people's opinions on the subject of tithing? I've heard everything along the spectrum, from "It's not mentioned in the New Testament and shouldn't be compulsory" to the stereotypical prosperity Gospel attitude that "The more you above above the typical 10%, the more God will bless you." My personal view? It's something that should come from the heart if you're gonna do it at all - if you feel forced to do it and give the money grudgingly, you're missing the point. If you do it thinking you're gonna get something extra from God out of it, you're also missing the point. And I try to model this, even if I'm lazy and often forget to bring my checkbook to church, and then find myself trying to calculate the "back tithes" that I missed in past months when I do remember to bring it. I've taught myself to look at my finances as if 90% of the money in my paycheck is actually mine to use - the rest is not money that I should ever view as "mine". Planning it into my budget makes it so that I don't have to go through the whole temptation of, "But I could use that money!" every month.

Here's the wrinkle, though: Even among those who generally see tithing the way I see it, there's confusion about whether all 10% should go to your church, or whether it's reasonable to divide that 10% up between your church and various other causes (Christian charities, missionary work, etc.) My current strategy is 5% to my church, the other 5% to various causes that differ from month to month. So if a friend's going on some mission to Africa or announces that they're going away to live with the poor in Cambodia in 5 years or plans to work full-time in a Christian counseling center with recovering drug addicts here in L.A., I can kick in some financial support without ever having that selfish thought, "I could spend that money on me!" cross my mind. But some would say you're robbing your church of that other 5% or whatever. It's a tough debate. I do feel like, at some level, you should want to be contributing something directly to your church if you care enough about the community to want to see it sustain itself. If you don't feel that way about your church, find one where you do!

But then I also feel like there are other resources you can contribute - your time and your skills - to help your church community, or to actually go on a mission trip or volunteer at the counseling center your church has partnered with or help lead youth group or whatever. There are 168 hours in a week, and if I'm honest with myself, I'm not donating 16.8 of them to my church.

Those are my random thoughts on the subject of tithing. What are yours?

[Vlad!]

A good topic, one that I've been giving some thought to for myself.

First of all, I have heard people say that giving money to the church is not in the New Testament, but they must be looking at a different New Testament than I am, because I see it in several places. Common examples include one of Jesus' rants against the Pharisees where he commends them for doing some things (including being very meticulous about tithing) but for neglecting some equally important things (loving their neighbors) and the story of the widow's coins, where Jesus commends the widow for giving out of her poverty. I think the reason we don't see direct discussion of giving to the church in the New Testament is that it's already well-understood by those involved that they should be giving money to the church. There is ample evidence in the letters of Paul that the churches he was writing to had resources which were used by the church as a body to do things like support his own ministry when he came visiting.

To me, this makes sense. I get a lot out of church, it is good for me in many different ways, and I am very grateful to it for its services; thus, I help it continue to thrive and grow by giving my money. The question I have been pondering, and the one you raise, is the proportions of money I give.

I have certainly heard the viewpoint that 10% goes to the church, and anything you want to do in terms of personally supporting missions should be done beyond that (perhaps unsurprisingly, it tends to be church staff and employees holding this view). However, I will note that while much of the New Testament evidence for tithing is indirect or requires reading into some passages, there are many direct commands for the Christian to be generous in giving to the poor and needy. If anything, I would say that the emphasis of the New Testament regarding the handling of funds is not on giving them to the church but on giving them to those who have none.

Historically, all the giving I have done has been to the church proper, and I depended on the leadership of the church to properly use my funds. However, as I've been reading through the gospels I have been made more acutely aware of how important it is to give to the poor, both because it indicates a humble and Christ-like spirit and because it quite possibly does more for us than it does for those we are giving to. I took a look at my church's budget (this should be readily available for all members; if it isn't, you and somebody in the leadership need to have a talk) and noted that the "benevolence fund" and giving to missions counted for about 17% of my church's budget[1]. One thing that I have been contemplating is cutting my giving to the church, as you describe, and giving part to local charities focused on helping the poor (or indeed directly to those who need it, in the circumstance that I come across those who are in need). Rather than cutting by half, I would probably cut by 1/3 or 1/4, since I want to contribute to the operating expenses of the church (as discussed above) and then also contribute to the benevolence and missions funds that the church maintains.

A good question, and obviously not one that I have a good answer to. I plan on talking to our deacon of finance about this at some point (it's hard to say "I want to give you less money" and I expect a biased perspective, but he's a really cool guy so I also expect him to be open to my idea, if not in full approval). I'll let you know if he says something that makes me change my mind.

[1] This doesn't look like a particularly good figure, but many churches are run on a shoestring budget, which is honestly a little shameful given what a generally prosperous area I live in. Several years back they also were almost forced into a very draconian lease, which means that facilities payments are much larger than they perhaps should be. This figure does not also take into account special contributions earmarked for a single purpose, like helping a church member with an illness or overseas mission sponsorship.

[Aaron]

I give regularly.  I usually am not able to tithe 10% or more because I would not be able to pay all my bills.  I write a check for a set amount every two weeks for my tithe.  I'd love to give 20 or 30 percent but I just can't right now.

[bethany]

I don't really have any hard and fast rules. We generally try to tithe 10% at least to the church, though I will be the first to admit that I am terrible about remembering to do so. We try to give what we can when needs arise - missions, etc. Our weekly small group also has a small fund - basically every week we throw in whatever small (or large, I suppose) amount of cash we can spare - $1, $5, $10, whatever. Then when someone in our group hears of a need in the community, they tell our group about it, propose an amount of money to put toward the need, and we vote 'yea' or 'nay.'

My feeling tends to be that we should be giving a minimal baseline tithe of 10% to the church, and also giving more on top of that to missions, those in need, etc. We have sometimes "tithed" to missionaries or people in ministry, though, particularly when we were sort of in between churches (I think we have also done it with "back tithes" occasionally). Basically I think what it comes down to, though, is that we should be regularly giving to God in a way that is at least slightly painful to us, and doing so joyfully. I also think that joy often follows obedience, so we should give because God commands us to, even when we don't feel like it.

[murlough23]

I don't like to dig through my wallet and throw random bills into the offering plate because (a) that's never gonna come close to 10% of my income, and (b) I can never find an ATM in between church and wherever I end up going out for lunch, so someone else always ends up spotting me because I ran out of cash. Checks make it easier to give an amount that I feel is reasonable based on our income. If there were a way to pay by credit card, believe me, I'd do it. (Then again, having it be so automatic sort of cheapens the gesture.)

I can understand that some folks aren't in a position to give 10%, and for some, they don't even notice the 10% is gone, so I think y'all are right in not being legalistic about that. But it's a good benchmark to start off with for those of us who do make enough to notice a gap between what we spend each month and what we really need to spend each month.

[Vlad!]

If there were a way to pay by credit card, believe me, I'd do it. (Then again, having it be so automatic sort of cheapens the gesture.)

My church has an automatic draft feature, but I'm not sure exactly how I feel about that so I haven't signed up for it.

[murlough23]

My church has an automatic draft feature, but I'm not sure exactly how I feel about that so I haven't signed up for it.

So you're a draft dodger?

I can see the good and bad in such a feature. The upside: You never forget to tithe. The downside: You don't have to think about tithing, so it deadens your awareness of something that is supposed to feel like a sacrifice. Also, knowing me, I'd forget to update the amount I'm supposed to pay every month when my income changed.

Embarrassing moment: At an old church I used to go to, I once got a call from their office asking me about an offering check that I'd turned in but forgotten to sign. Doh!

[Vlad!]

I can see the good and bad in such a feature. The upside: You never forget to tithe. The downside: You don't have to think about tithing, so it deadens your awareness of something that is supposed to feel like a sacrifice. Also, knowing me, I'd forget to update the amount I'm supposed to pay every month when my income changed.

Yeah, that pretty much mirrors my reasoning. Also, it makes it more difficult to redirect my tithe (for example, if I'm visiting my parents and attend their church, I will give my weekly check to their church instead). It makes it slightly more difficult to tithe on special things like bonuses and tax refunds, because if I'm not in the habit of bringing a check to church each week I'll likely forget on weeks when I need to give something extra.

[murlough23]

Yeah, that pretty much mirrors my reasoning. Also, it makes it more difficult to redirect my tithe (for example, if I'm visiting my parents and attend their church, I will give my weekly check to their church instead).

Interesting. I never give money when I'm visiting other churches. Pastors at my own church have mentioned from time to time that offering is not something they expect visitors to feel compelled to be a part of.

YIt makes it slightly more difficult to tithe on special things like bonuses and tax refunds, because if I'm not in the habit of bringing a check to church each week I'll likely forget on weeks when I need to give something extra.

I'll likely forget anyway. The bottom line is that checks are rapidly becoming outdated, but there are still those situations where you need 'em. I can't tell you how many times I've forgotten completely where I last put the damn thing, and thus I took forever to write someone a check to pay them back for whatever. (I've seriously sent people personal checks, for money they spotted me, through my online banking.) I'd keep it in my car if I weren't afraid about what might get stolen if someone broke into my car again.

[Vlad!]

Interesting. I never give money when I'm visiting other churches. Pastors at my own church have mentioned from time to time that offering is not something they expect visitors to feel compelled to be a part of.

IMO that refers to visitors who are non-Christians. I believe I should always be contributing towards God's work, and if I've benefited from attending a service, as I usually do, I should naturally give back. Plus, I love that church and the people there.

I'll likely forget anyway. The bottom line is that checks are rapidly becoming outdated, but there are still those situations where you need 'em. I can't tell you how many times I've forgotten completely where I last put the damn thing, and thus I took forever to write someone a check to pay them back for whatever. (I've seriously sent people personal checks, for money they spotted me, through my online banking.) I'd keep it in my car if I weren't afraid about what might get stolen if someone broke into my car again.

I keep a check in my wallet because I forget to write one beforehand at least once per month. After using the wallet check, the first thing I do when I get home is replace it. That system generally works out for me. (I do keep a Bible in my car at all times because yes, I am just that forgetful).

[murlough23]

IMO that refers to visitors who are non-Christians. I believe I should always be contributing towards God's work, and if I've benefited from attending a service, as I usually do, I should naturally give back. Plus, I love that church and the people there.

Since I go with the "one lump sum per month" method of giving, my home church doesn't get any less from me when I travel. Whether I'm physically there every week is irrelevant.

Though I suppose if one were a real goodie two-shoes, one would just give to both.

But your philosophy on this is no less valid than mine. I don't know if there's a singular right answer to this one. The last two churches I visited, one was the new home church of a college friend who was going with members of the church on a summer mission, and I donated to that. The other was an outdoor service and I don't even recall them doing an offering that Sunday.

Still, I'm pretty sure that my church's attitude towards visitors who have a regular church "back home" is that it's more important to give to the community you call home. This would seem to imply that you are a Christian who regularly attends a church, just not ours. If you're a visitor looking for a new church, I think we just figure that if you end up settling in here (which of course we would love), you'll like it enough to want to contribute once you're a part of the family.

Talking about money is the dreaded topic for a lot of preachers. I think our senior pastor handles it well with his philosophy of being excited enough about what the church is doing to want to support it in some way, and if you don't feel that way, he'll jokingly say, "Get out of here!" Which is not to say, "You're a freeloader and we don't like you and you're not welcome here" (nobody knows who gives what except for one person on our office staff who does not disclose information on individual gifts to anyone else, including the pastors), but rather, "We want you to be a part of a church that you are excited about enough to want to devote your resources to its well-being, and we value that more than trying to persuade you to stay here if this place isn't a good fit for you."

I keep a check in my wallet because I forget to write one beforehand at least once per month. After using the wallet check, the first thing I do when I get home is replace it. That system generally works out for me.

That sounds like it'd be a good system for brain-addled types like me who are constantly running late on Sunday mornings and always forgetting stuff.

(I do keep a Bible in my car at all times because yes, I am just that forgetful).

That's ironic. I once misplaced my Bible for several months, and it turns out it had slid under the passenger seat of my car. I could have had it handy all of those Sundays that I went to church without it. (Not that I don't have other Bibles lying around the house. We host a Bible study at our apartment, and people who visit like once or twice keep absent-mindedly leaving 'em behind. I suppose I should keep one of the unclaimed and well-worn ones in my car as a backup.)

[Vlad!]

That sounds like it'd be a good system for brain-addled types like me who are constantly running late on Sunday mornings and always forgetting stuff.

I don't even have the excuse of running late--the guys in my family group pray together at 8am (service starts at 10am), so I'm generally there two hours beforehand. I'm just really absent-minded sometimes.

[bethany]

This is an interesting article about how some Christians keep tithing in the face of foreclosure on their homes. Now that is some dedication to the 10% principle.

[murlough23]

This is an interesting article about how some Christians keep tithing in the face of foreclosure on their homes. Now that is some dedication to the 10% principle.

That is interesting. If you are the poor, should you have to pay to help the poor?

Interestingly, the group that did the research that came up with the stats that article cited (the Barna Group) is also the group behind the book I'm currently reading now, called unChristian, which talks about the stats on how many young people are turning away from the Church, and what the Church might be doing to cause that.

[Vlad!]

That is interesting. If you are the poor, should you have to pay to help the poor?

The premise, which seems fairly valid to me, is that giving is as much for the giver as for the recipient. I don't know if you have to, but it seems like a good thing to do (ref: Mark 12: 42-44 / Luke 21: 2-4).

[murlough23]

The premise, which seems fairly valid to me, is that giving is as much for the giver as for the recipient. I don't know if you have to, but it seems like a good thing to do (ref: Mark 12: 42-44 / Luke 21: 2-4).

I agree that it's a good idea. As I mentioned above, I don't buy into the "prosperity gospel" notion that your funds will somehow be multiplies by God later because you were willing to give, but I think that doing it contributes to an attitude adjustment. That said, if someone's in a pinch during a certain month and they don't feel comfortable giving, I'm not going to begrudge them that. I think that there are other things that they can give besides money, if money is not a resource that they're able to free up much of.

It's also worth noting that a lot of folks who have money are comfortable throwing that money at a problem or a need, but it's often much harder to find people who are willing to throw their time, energy, and ingenuity at it. As an example, we've been having a tough time finding and keeping team members to send to the Democratic Republic of the Congo this winter, but it's been relatively easier to find people willing to donate money so that people can go.

NP: "Hold Fast Hope", Thrice