What are you reading right now?

[Aaron]

I finally finished Ray C. Stedman's Authentic Christianity.  After reading it, I am putting it up there as one of the most important books for Christians to read.

[adriftconscious]

What was the main point?

I'm VERY bad at describing books to folks, still I'll do my best here. The book is split into two main sections; the first part is mostly theoretical, heady stuff, and the second part is descriptions of application. Rollins is very provocative, that much is true. I fall very much on the side of post-modernism and the emerging church movement, and I even lost him a couple of times. Talking to him it seems like a lot of these more controversial statements are just interesting ideas that he examines to see just how applicable they could be-- how do they make him think. However, he's rooted in some pretty intriguing reformed theology.

He argues for a reading of orthodoxy that is more than just right belief, but believing in the right way-- if that makes sense. Talks about honest Christian faith as a/theistic; basically acknowledge that your beliefs in God are not correct and do not reflect the true nature of the creator of the world, while affirming that you think that God is there in some capacity you don't understand. He touches on an idea of hypernymity which is really interesting to me. The best analogy I have for this is blood. Without blood, humans wouldn't live. It pumps and courses through everything, but only on rare occasions do we perceive its existence and usually then through some kind of tear in the human fabric. Same with God. It's an interesting way to think of God-- hyperpresent. But obviously, this isn't some new kind of thought, either. That's another interesting thing. Rollins draws from so much ancient tradition it makes me wonder what we've discarded. There's really too much going on to put down in a few posts on a message board. This is fruit for hours of discussion over dinner or something.

The second part describes services at the community that Rollins started in Belfast called Ikon. Ikon isn't a church, per-se, and the services aren't worship at all. Its more just food for thought, at least that's my impression from attending one from Pete. One goal is to deconstruct you, and then spend the rest of the month in community with the other folks in Ikon reconstructing yourself. It's pretty interesting. Its definitely provocative, but I loved the book.

[Vlad!]

Does he cover the general and specific revelation through which God makes himself known to us (some laymen refer to part of this as the "Bible" )? Obviously I'm just not hip and postmodern enough, but a lot of it sounds like the sort of airy-fairy agnosticism that is so tempting but ultimately so intellectually dissatisfying. I can totally get behind the concept that there are aspects of God that I don't understand, and even that we as humans may never understand, but those aren't generally the aspects that the interesting books are about.

I realize that systematic theology is incredibly gauche these days among the postmodern crowd, but the alternative, this sort of deconstructionism that Rollins seems to be preaching, is really inwardly-focused for a movement that is ostensibly focused on establishing a dialog with society. I certainly think that the modern church needs a kick in the pants, at least in the area of trying to sit around and get their doctrinal ducks in a row rather than engaging the culture, but is it really necessary to throw the baby out with the bathwater?

Anyway, that's my two-cent criticism of a book I've never read by a person whom I've never heard of . Thanks for sharing your thoughts and impressions from it.

[adriftconscious]

Does he cover the general and specific revelation through which God makes himself known to us (some laymen refer to part of this as the "Bible" )? Obviously I'm just not hip and postmodern enough, but a lot of it sounds like the sort of airy-fairy agnosticism that is so tempting but ultimately so intellectually dissatisfying. I can totally get behind the concept that there are aspects of God that I don't understand, and even that we as humans may never understand, but those aren't generally the aspects that the interesting books are about.

I realize that systematic theology is incredibly gauche these days among the postmodern crowd, but the alternative, this sort of deconstructionism that Rollins seems to be preaching, is really inwardly-focused for a movement that is ostensibly focused on establishing a dialog with society. I certainly think that the modern church needs a kick in the pants, at least in the area of trying to sit around and get their doctrinal ducks in a row rather than engaging the culture, but is it really necessary to throw the baby out with the bathwater?

Anyway, that's my two-cent criticism of a book I've never read by a person whom I've never heard of . Thanks for sharing your thoughts and impressions from it.

As far as this deconstruction is concerned, I think it is very important to note that for Rollins and for the Ikon crowd that the whole point of this "internal deconstruction" is that they do it together, in community. They pull each others beliefs apart together, and they put each other back together in community. One really fascinating thing they do is called the "evangelism team." The basic idea behind this group of folks is that they go around to groups of people with differing religious beliefs from their own and let themselves get evangelized. There is no agenda on their part beside learning and hopefully being able to glean a nugget of truth of two from these people who see the world differently from them. They also run an "Omega Course." If you're familiar with many evangelical "Alpha Courses" you'll know what Ikon's doing here. I can explain otherwise.

Once again, this book is a topic that I think bears sitting down and discussing for hours the implications of each chapter-- believe me, Rollins packs a lot into each bit of the book. It does seem very light and fluffy the way I'm describing it, but that's more down to the lack of substance I'm able to convey here. I could post chapter by chapter breakdowns, but I'm not sure anyone other than myself would be interested in even seeing this. So, the problem lies not in Rollins but in my poor skills of communication.

Regarding the Bible, Rollins does make an interesting point about its revelatory power: God never presents a single thread of personality in the Bible. God is an incredibly complex character in creation, and if anything the Bible reinforces this, continually confounding our attempts to nail down the God of Creation's character. God hides in his own visibility, I guess. Kind of like that whole hypernymity concept I was trying to convey earlier. In the second chapter Pete talks about shifting God to being the subject of creation rather than an object which we can study. Instead, we are the object. Is this making sense? I'm not sure how clear I'm being...

Side note-- I think the agnosticism that you alluded to isn't really present in Pete... at least not in the way you'd think of it. It only extends so far as to say "Look, I don't have God figured out. I worship a false God, but I'm trying to worship the true God." In a sense, this sentiment is echoed by the quintessential modernist Christian, C.S. Lewis. I recall something in a book of his to this effect, "It's a good thing God is gracious, because when I pray I most certainly do not pray to the God of the Universe, instead I'm praying to a God of my own creation. Still, God is faithful and gracious and accepts my fumblings for him."

Finally, one last little anecdote that I really like. Pete talks about this Rabbi who is giving lessons to some students. They have this cat who keeps coming by and disrupting the meetings. So they tie the cat up. Then the Rabbi dies, but the students keep tying the cat up. Then the cat dies so they get a new cat to continue the tradition. What started as practical becomes routinized and brainless. In the same way would Jesus come back and say "Great, you're walking the second mile... why don't you go three?"

Anyway... yep.

[who me?]

I have about thirty library books out and I'm reading none of them. I just finished all four gospels and started  Acts today. I know all the stories, but it's good to read them again.

[ajyouthguy]

I'm planning on getting a lot of reading done this week b/c it's my students' spring break and i have someone else doing my youth group for me on Wednesday, so i have an easy week.  anyways, i'm currently starting 3 books...

Good News and Good Works: A Theology of the Whole Gospel--Ron Sider (started before but re-started now b/c i never got far into it)
Breaking the Missional Code--Ed Stetzer
Jesus: An Intimate Portrait of the Man, His Land, and His Time--Leith Anderson

[cowdude]

Over spring break I read:
Body Piercing Saved My Life: Inside the Phenomenon of Christian Rock by Andrew Beaujon
Safely Home by Randy Alcorn
and I'm in the middle of:
Sex, Drugs and Economics: An Unconventional Introduction to Economics by Diane Coyle
The Road by Cormac McCarthy

[NewDimension]

Well, what I'm reading right now, is the Bible! I LOVE the Bible, it's the best book ever! It's so cool that you can actually read the very words God breathed out. We can actually get to know God, His everlasting love for us, and the precious riches His Word contians, which is more than I could ever name. Everytime I read, I get a new revelation and deeper appreciation for God. This is one book that I can NEVER stop reading.
God Bless you guys immensly and fill you each with His Spirit

[ajyouthguy]

What If Jesus Had Never Been Born? by D. James Kennedy

[ajyouthguy]

Why Men Hate Going to Church--David Murrow

[Vlad!]

Why Men Hate Going to Church--David Murrow

Once you've read it, I'll be interested to know why it is that men hate going to church (sorry for continually assigning you book reports, but you read books with very provocative titles).

[ajyouthguy]

well i'm not that far into it yet, but i know that the basic premise, based on the fact that women outnumber men in churches on average of at least 2-1, is that churches are geared towards safe and comfortable, instead of challenging and risky.

[Vlad!]

That's interesting. I haven't noticed a preponderance of females vs. males at any of the churches I have attended. The only exception would probably be among the elderly, as there tend to be more elderly lone females than males (which statistically speaking makes sense, I suppose). Among the regular attendees of the small group I am part of, there are three married couples, two single males, and three single females, ages ranging from 23 to late thirties.

That said, the conclusion (safe versus challenging) I think is very valid, and worth addressing even if the gender inequality isn't necessarily universal.

[cowdude]

"The Children Of Men" by P.D. James

[RedcoatJones]

Stealing Your Life by Frank Abagnale

Written by the real-life Abagnale, who the movie Catch Me If You Can, was about. His thesis on identity theft and what you can do to stop it. Half-way through, and nothing yet that I wasn't aware of except for maybe the amount of ID theft that goes on.

[ajyouthguy]

It's All Downhill from Here: On the Road With Project 86--Andrew Schwab

[who me?]

Just finished Redeeming Love by Francine Rivers.

Very good, but maybe more a chick book

[Vlad!]

Just finished Redeeming Love by Francine Rivers.

Very good, but maybe more a chick book

If I recall correctly--and I don't always--there was a minor amount of dorama at my high school when that book appeared on the reading list. Some parents claimed that it contained material inappropriate for high-school aged children. Not that it does, or so I've heard (I haven't read it), but I think it's proof that people get offended over stuff way too easily. If the book of Hosea, which I understand Redeeming Love is loosely based on, were to come out today and grace the shelves of Christian bookstores, I'm willing to bet that some people would deign to be offended by it as well.

[who me?]

^ Hehe. Yeah, it was borderline. I read it and it didn't kill my innocent mind or anything, but I can see some parents getting upset.

And, after reading that book, I went and reread Hosea, and it would definatly be censored.

[ajyouthguy]

Provocative Faith--Matthew Turner

[cowdude]

Continuing my trend of only reading books that have been made into movies I started "I Am Legend" by Richard Matheson.

[ajyouthguy]

Christ-Centered Preaching: Redeeming the Expository Sermon--Bryan Chappell

my 'currently reading' choices are not gonna be as exciting for the most part for a while because i'm finally back in seminary classes working towards my Master's and some of these books are definite doozies.

[dgp11776]

The Jesus I Never Knew - Philip Yancey
Hold Tight - Harlan Coben (my favorite fiction author)

[who me?]

The Wide Window- the third book in Lemony Snicketts 'A Series of Unfortunate Events', just because I never read them yet. Kinda random, but they're fairly well written if they are entirely unbelievable.

[ajyouthguy]

The Jesus I Never Knew - Philip Yancey

that may be my favorite book i've ever read.

i'm now reading
Jesus of Suburbia--Mike Erre

[who me?]

The Jesus I Never Knew - Philip Yancey

I want to read that. We used to own it, but I don't know if it's in the container or it was 'borrowed'. I'll try the library, but their options are rather limited.

[ajyouthguy]

Generation Change--Zach Hunter

[latinchic]

"Beyond Opinion" - Ravi Zacharias & the RZIM team.

[who me?]

Understanding the Gospel - Sinclair Ferguson

[who me?]

The Holy War - John Bunyan

It's very good, quite different from Pilgrims Progress, but definitely the same corniness in names 

[ajyouthguy]

An Unstoppable Force--Erwin McManus
The Modern Preacher and the Ancient Text--Sidney Greidanus

[ajyouthguy]

Crazy Love--Francis Chan

[ajyouthguy]

Plastic Jesus (Exposing the Hollowness of Comfortable Christianity)--Eric Sandras

[Vlad!]

Plastic Jesus (Exposing the Hollowness of Comfortable Christianity)--Eric Sandras

That one sounds interesting. Please do let us know if Sandras reaches any useful conclusions about practically moving from comfortable Christianity to self-sacrificial Christianity in the modern world.

[ajyouthguy]

Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church--D.A. Carson

[phaith]

Finally I'm reading "the sound and the fury" by Falkner. I've had it on my list for 5 years!  but had other things that took priority.

[spacebrat311]

Crazy Love--Francis Chan

How is it? Francis Chan speaks at my school rather frequently, and I've talked to him a few times, but I've never looked into any of his writing.

[ajyouthguy]

How is it? Francis Chan speaks at my school rather frequently, and I've talked to him a few times, but I've never looked into any of his writing.

honestly, i'm a very avid reader, and it's one of the best books i've ever read, which is saying a lot because there is a LOT of great stuff i've read.  it challenged me and it inspired me for a series in the fall loosely based on it for my youth group.

[RedcoatJones]

Out of Egypt - Ann Rice

[who me?]

Just finished The Jesus I never Knew by Philip Yancey. Started to read Jesus Was Not A Trinitarian by Anthony someone, but got bored with it. Now I'm reading The Lion, The Witch, And The Wadrobe again.