Whoa, Didn't See THIS coming...

[ajyouthguy]

so there is HUGE Newsboys news out today i guess.  not that many (any?) people on here are still huge fans of them, although i'm guessing many of us (myself included) have been at one point or another.  i will post the link below, but basically the summary is that Peter Furler is stepping down as a touring member, although he'll still be the creative force behind the band, and Michael Tait is going to become their new frontman...wow...

http://newsboys.com/2009/03/michael-tait-to-join-newsboys/

[murlough23]

I have a lot of mixed feelings about this. Newsboys have morphed to the point of their roster being unrecognizable due to all the member changes in recent years. I really felt that the creative core of the band was Peter Furler and Phil Joel. Other players are important, but they generally don't offer as much songwriting-wise. I guess Furler will still be there behind the scenes, but Tait's involvement likely means he'll become a contributing songwriter as well, and Tait ain't exactly a great songwriter. (I hope Steve Taylor's still returning their calls.) On the upside, at least Paul Colman's out and Jody Davis is back in.

On the other band, Tait's band was rapidly going nowhere. Their third album kept getting held up and held up, and who knew if the band's attempt to do a Maroon5/Lenny Kravitz sort of thing was even going to be remotely enjoyable anyway. I lost most of my interest in Tait after Pete Stewart took off. He's a better vocalist than Furler, and it's cool for him that he now gets to be a part of two massive Christian rock legends, though at this point I can't say I expect Newsboys to continue that much longer before they peter out. (Pun intended.)

Oh, and on the subject of longtime members unexpectedly leaving bands, Steven Page has left the Barenaked Ladies. That was surprising to me since he's an integral member of the band. (Though it's nice that everyone in the band has sung lead at least once, so they definitely have the talent to continue, but it'll be missing something without Page's input.)

NP: "Investigate", Delirious?

[Ian]

While I was a bit shocked at this news, I think it's going to work out fine.  I liked what Tait's band did, and I'm interested to see what kind of spin he'll put on some of the Newsboys classics.  Peter is still going to be behind the albums, so there's really not much of a change there.  Tait won't be able to replace Phil on the BGV, but it'll still be interesting to see how they utilize the change.  Probably won't be anything dramatic, but still worth looking forward to.

Speaking of looking forward to things, I'm dreading their next album.  This band has a huge place in my music listening history, and I hate seeing these recent mishaps.  If they could just put out an average-good album and call it quits I would be able to breathe a sigh of relief.

[murlough23]

Speaking of looking forward to things, I'm dreading their next album.  This band has a huge place in my music listening history, and I hate seeing these recent mishaps.  If they could just put out an average-good album and call it quits I would be able to breathe a sigh of relief.

Go is iffy as an album, but a song like "Something Beautiful" proves that they are still capable of recording material which ranks among their best stuff, when they really put some effort into it.

NP: "It's All Who You Know", Newsboys

[Aaron]

Tait's first album was very good.  The rest were terrible.

This makes no sense since Furler will still sing on the albums but not on tour. 

Jody Davis should just take over the role as lead singer/lead guitarist.  His solo album a few years back was a delightful pop/rock album. 

Also, Do you think they even thought about calling John James?

[murlough23]

Tait's first album was very good.  The rest were terrible.

The rest? They've only put out two albums. Though I agree that Lose This Life was terrible. It was the worst solo album from a dc Talk member until KMax discovered waspel.

This makes no sense since Furler will still sing on the albums but not on tour.

Agreed; it would be more consistent if Furler played more of a behind the scene songwriter/producer role. He could still play drums. Lord knows the Newsboys still need to learn how to use their TWO DRUMMERS.

Jody Davis should just take over the role as lead singer/lead guitarist.  His solo album a few years back was a delightful pop/rock album.

It would definitely be a change from Furler and James, but then, so would Tait.

Also, Do you think they even thought about calling John James?

My impression of James is that he's been through so much since leaving the band that it isn't a world he'd want to go back to. Not due to bad relationships with the other band members or anything... but being a celebrity did not lead a to a beneficial period in his life, by his own admission. I highly doubt he'd want to relive that chapter of his life.

It would be funny to see if anyone noticed the difference, though. For the life of me, I can't tell the two guys' voices apart. (I couldn't even tell that Phil Joel sang lead on "Breathe (Benediction)" until he told me himself that he did.

NP: "Drive", All Star United

[ajyouthguy]

It was the worst solo album from a dc Talk member until KMax discovered waspel.

forgive my ignorance, but what does that mean?

For the life of me, I can't tell the two guys' voices apart.

yeah, until Furler took over as the primary lead i didn't even realize he had sung lead on several songs before.  i had seen him do it in some of the shows i'd seen, but i just thought  that was something they did live.  i can't tell them apart on songs from the past, though, which always made me wonder if he sang more lead than we thought or than it showed.

wasn't there an article where JJ told his story of life since leaving the Newsboys and he admitted to drug problems and stuff like that?  if not, i guess i'm slandering the man, but i was thinking that was what came out a couple of years ago.

by the way, it WOULD be interesting to have Steve Taylor back in the mix with Tait singing...that would be an odd pairing but it would be interesting. 

My favorite Newsboys days were when Furler and James were both in the mix and Joel had joined as well.  they were like a 7 person band or something like that when i saw them in concert a couple of times, and i thought that was the best group they had.  it is a pretty big deal, though, to lose the one link that has always been there, even though Furler will still be around and behind the scenes, but he is, and has been for a long time, the only one from the beginning days.  Petra did something similar at about the same point in their careers, only it was Bob Hartman, the lead guitarist/founder/chief songwriter who disappeared into a behind the scenes guy but was still one of the primary driving forces behind the band.

[Aaron]

The rest? They've only put out two albums. Though I agree that Lose This Life was terrible. It was the worst solo album from a dc Talk member until KMax discovered waspel.

Lose This Life was even worse than The Blood.  Then again, i rate Toby's solo albums below everything Kevin did and just above Lose This Life

[murlough23]

forgive my ignorance, but what does that mean?

It's a portmanteau of WASP and Gospel. The Blood would be the album that I'm referring to.

wasn't there an article where JJ told his story of life since leaving the Newsboys and he admitted to drug problems and stuff like that?  if not, i guess i'm slandering the man, but i was thinking that was what came out a couple of years ago.

I don't remember if it was drugs, specifically, but whatever it was, it was bad by his own admission, and for him the solution was to cut ties with rock & roll and go back to Australia and simplify his life.

by the way, it WOULD be interesting to have Steve Taylor back in the mix with Tait singing...that would be an odd pairing but it would be interesting.

I'll take just about anything I can get from Steve Taylor at this point.

NP: "Smell the Color 9", Chris Rice

[ajyouthguy]

ah, wow, i LOVED The Blood album.  it, along with Kmax's Christmas album, brought me back to Kmax's music.  i loved The Blood album and had it in my top 5 from that year, but i remember that you guys didn't like it so much.  haha.

[murlough23]

Lose This Life was even worse than The Blood.  Then again, i rate Toby's solo albums below everything Kevin did and just above Lose This Life

I was rather meh about Portable Sounds, but it wasn't horrible. I enjoyed Toby's previous solo albums, silly as they were. Tait's first album, though lyrically challenged in places, was a solid rock album. Kevin's Stereotype Be is still my favorite of any of their post-dc Talk material, though. And The Imposter was pretty good. I'll have to check out Kevin's new EP; my interest in "dc Talk" solo kind of fell to an all-time low after The Blood and the long stretch of nothing coming from Tait.

NP: "Hate", Fiction Plane

[murlough23]

it, along with Kmax's Christmas album, brought me back to Kmax's music.

That Christmas album was Snoozeville. Not a single creative thing about it, just a dude singing traditional carols. I'd expect that from some American Idol crooner, but with Kevin, I expect a little weirdness.

[Aaron]

Michael's first album was successful because of Pete Stewart.  For some reason, the 2nd one wasn't as good even with Pete. I assume it was record label pressure because they seem to be the problem most of the time.


John James left the Newsboys due to his issues with drugs and booze.

[Aaron]

That Christmas album was Snoozeville. Not a single creative thing about it, just a dude singing traditional carols. I'd expect that from some American Idol crooner, but with Kevin, I expect a little weirdness.

Maybe it was his point to be normal that time. LOL

[ajyouthguy]

http://www.crossrhythms.co.uk/articles/music/%20john_james_the_newsboys_exlead_singer_speaks_about_his_fall_and_restoration/25790/p1/

there's the (LONG) interview with John about his life at the end of and after the Newsboys...it was primarily alcohol, but led to recreational drugs and marital unfaithfulness as well.

oh, and for what it's worth, i think what drew me to those 2 albums was just the simpleness of Kevin's voice set to old-fashioned songs of faith.  i realize it's not as artsy and so forth as his other stuff by a long shot, but for me, i  was just drawn to his incredible voice in those two albums, and their simplicity.

[murlough23]

oh, and for what it's worth, i think what drew me to those 2 albums was just the simpleness of Kevin's voice set to old-fashioned songs of faith.  i realize it's not as artsy and so forth as his other stuff by a long shot, but for me, i  was just drawn to his incredible voice in those two albums, and their simplicity.

Yawn. The past is the past. Either illuminate it in a new and interesting way, or leave it to those who have already recorded the definitive versions of it.

[ajyouthguy]

The past is the past.

wow.  i'm not even sure how to respond to that.

i like KMax's hymn and Christmas cd's, for the reasons i mentioned, i'm not sure what else i can say.  you can disagree, that's fine, but i like them, for the reasons mentioned.

[murlough23]

wow.  i'm not even sure how to respond to that.

Looks like you figured out a way.

i like KMax's cd's, for the reasons i mentioned, i'm not sure what else i can say.  you can disagree, that's fine, but i like them, for the reasons mentioned.

I can't disagree with the fact that you liked them. I'm just saying, none of those are reasons that I would find a person's music to be even remotely interesting. This is subjective, not objective.

[spacebrat311]

I was rather meh about Portable Sounds, but it wasn't horrible. I enjoyed Toby's previous solo albums, silly as they were.

Silly might be the understatement of the century. I don't think Toby makes music so much as extremely comical attempts to make "what the kids are listening to..."

[ajyouthguy]

I don't think Toby makes music so much as extremely comical attempts to make "what the kids are listening to..."

which is even funnier when you consider that he turns 45 later this year...

[murlough23]

Silly might be the understatement of the century. I don't think Toby makes music so much as extremely comical attempts to make "what the kids are listening to..."

I never really took Toby's music as a serious attempt at hip-hop. (Winning Dove Awards for supposedly making hip-hop songs is another issue, but that's more due to name recognition than anything else.) It's a cartoon version of what "the kids" are listening to, but for what it is, sometimes it's fun. Other times it's just plain idiotic.

[murlough23]

which is even funnier when you consider that he turns 45 later this year...

There shouldn't be an age limit on making the music you like. I think it has more to do with insulated CCM subculture in this case than with age.

The reverse can happen sometimes - hell, most of Norah Jones' fanbase is twice her age.

[ajyouthguy]

There shouldn't be an age limit on making the music you like. I think it has more to do with insulated CCM subculture in this case than with age.

The reverse can happen sometimes - hell, most of Norah Jones' fanbase is twice her age.

understood, but i'm talking about how ridiculous some of what he does looks, especially given his age.  it would be different if he were doing a different style, such as a rocker playing guitar and singing or a piano singer songwriter or whatever, but with the style and the live show of what Toby does, for me it just becomes funnier knowing how old he is, ie the 'cartoonish,' and 'idiotic' terms you used in your post...

[murlough23]

understood, but i'm talking about how ridiculous some of what he does looks, especially given his age.  it would be different if he were doing a different style, such as a rocker playing guitar and singing or a piano singer songwriter or whatever, but with the style and the live show of what Toby does, for me it just becomes funnier knowing how old he is, ie the 'cartoonish,' and 'idiotic' terms you used in your post...

Legitimate hip-hop artists' live shows look ridiculous to me, so I guess I'm the wrong person to try to convince here.

[bloop]

I think whatever the artist does should make sense with their level of maturity, in general.  We just have too many bratty, entitled, angsty 35 year olds in music, and it's hard to believe that their lyrics are sincerely the way they feel as opposed to simple target marketing.

[murlough23]

I think whatever the artist does should make sense with their level of maturity, in general.

Your lyrics should be true to your own experiences (or really good fiction if you choose to make stuff up). Your music should be true to whatever the hell kind of music you enjoy making (though if tens of thousands of others are making it too, you may want to consider doing something to make it more unique).

We just have too many bratty, entitled, angsty 35 year olds in music, and it's hard to believe that their lyrics are sincerely the way they feel as opposed to simple target marketing.

This is all true, but I'm not sure what angst has to do with Toby Mac.

[bloop]

It wasn't directed at Toby Mac, but at inauthentic artists in general, because the charge was a lack of authenticity as I'm understanding it.  I didn't care enough about dc Talk to follow the band's solo careers faithfully to say much about him (honestly, I find the entire enterprise to be deeply overrated).

But, I should have put an "or" somewhere in there anyway, again, not that I think any of those individual words necessarily apply to him.

[murlough23]

It wasn't directed at Toby Mac, but at inauthentic artists in general, because the charge was a lack of authenticity as I'm understanding it.

"Authentic" could mean two different things here, and I think that's where confusion arises. There's the issue of the thoughts and emotions expressed being authentic to the artist - meaning you're not just putting on an act to keep in step with whoever else is popular. Then there's the issue of the musical style being "authentic" to the genre it claims to be, rather than being a watered-down poppy version of it.

The question got brought up specifically in reference to Toby Mac and his age. If we're talking about authenticity of the thoughts and attitude expressed, I don't hear anything coming from him that I wouldn't believe really fits his personality. It's mostly yay God, racial unity, I love my wife and my kiddos, let's get all the multi-colored people in the house to raise the roof, etc. A bit shallow and predictable at times, but I believe he means every word of what he says.

If we're talking about authenticity of the musical style, I don't think he ever tries to pass it off as serious hardcore hip-hop or anything. dc Talk was all about fusing together the genres of music they enjoyed from the very beginning - it left behind hip-pop (not a typo) and started to do more of a rock/pop/R&B/alternative/whatever thing once Tait and KMax got more involved in the songwriting. Toby going back to more of the rap oriented stuff while maintaining some of the rock edge he picked up from his former bandmates was not at all surprising when the group went their separate ways. It doesn't hold the same appeal to me without the influence of those other two guys, but Toby's just doing what he loves. It's the GMAs that fail to recognize it as a hybrid, and who treat it as if it's the best Christian rap that there is, to the detriment of Christian hip-hop artists who are trying to be more true to the roots of the genre.

[ajyouthguy]

i didn't want to start a whole new topic on this, but it's newsworthy and fits with the 'didn't see this coming' thing for this topic...apparently Bebe Winans was arrested recently for a domestic assault charge in a custody dispute with his ex-wife...

http://music.msn.com/music/article.aspx?news=356742&GT1=28102

[murlough23]

i didn't want to start a whole new topic on this, but it's newsworthy and fits with the 'didn't see this coming' thing for this topic...apparently Bebe Winans was arrested recently for a domestic assault charge in a custody dispute with his ex-wife...

http://music.msn.com/music/article.aspx?news=356742&GT1=28102

Domestic violence... What do you expect from a guy named after a gun?

[spacebrat311]

Like I need more ammunition to dislike him.

[murlough23]

Like I need more ammunition to dislike him.

Oh, shoot. That joke was right on target... though it was also way beyond the scope of this discussion.

[spacebrat311]

Thanks for the compliment on the joke. I really tried to give it both barrels.