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Author Topic: Jars of Clay - The Long Fall Back to Earth  (Read 1738 times)
murlough23
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« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2009, 01:28:49 PM »

I just listened to this for the first time, and after one listen, I have to say: I think it's easily the weakest album they've ever made, except perhaps for the Christmas one, which I've never heard. I think most of their albums are very very good, bordering on really great, and even the weakest ones are usually interesting and ambitious, in spite of their flaws. But this one is just a dreadful bore, at least to my ears-- the first Jars album I've ever heard and not particularly wanted to hear again.

It's poppy. Very little acoustic stuff, and no intentional "flaws" in the recording process. I'm not surprised you can't get into it. As I recall, you preferred their folksier stuff.
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Josh
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« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2009, 02:35:39 PM »

Well, in this particular instance, yes, though I don't necessarily have a bias against electronica or pop; my problems with this record are several. For one, it seems-- for the first time-- like they're trying to jump on to a particular bandwagon; this new style happens to be a very hip one, as with bands like The Killers, et al.

Second, there's less depth to the production this time around, and there aren't many dynamic shifts-- many of the songs feel very samey to me, and most of them feel very flat.

Third, the hooks aren't there, at least not for me.

And fourth, I'm not big on Dan's lyrics here. The sentiments he expresses are all fine, and some of his turns of phrase are quite memorable, but they don't really seem to flow with any kind of rhythm or momentum, which you really need in pop songs like these.

So all in all, while there's nothing here that I think is particularly bad, there's also nothing that engages me.
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murlough23
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« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2009, 02:49:40 PM »

Well, in this particular instance, yes, though I don't necessarily have a bias against electronica or pop; my problems with this record are several. For one, it seems-- for the first time-- like they're trying to jump on to a particular bandwagon; this new style happens to be a very hip one, as with bands like The Killers, et al.

I don't think the use of synthesizers and 80's elements should draw immediate comparisons to The Killers and their ilk. That's like saying anything with a banjo was influenced by Sufjan Stevens. It could have been, but it isn't necessarily.

Personally, I see this flirtation with 80's-era sounds as the fulfillment of something they've probably wanted to play around with for a while, but that their old label might not have let them get away with because a few years back, it wasn't "cool" at all. They did an version of "Boy on a String" in concert circa If I Left the Zoo that was very much electronica-influenced and that would have fit the style of Long Fall, and I've heard them do several 80's covers, both live and in studio. Jars of Clay always had the nostalgia; they just hadn't fully embraced it until now.

Second, there's less depth to the production this time around, and there aren't many dynamic shifts-- many of the songs feel very samey to me, and most of them feel very flat.

There are a few that don't stand out, but I think the standouts are pretty stellar, so I think this probably an issue of not having listened to it that much just yet. Many of my favorite Jars albums felt flat and samey to me at first.

Third, the hooks aren't there, at least not for me.

That's just one of those subjective things that we can never seem to nail down. One man's hook is another man's boredom. For me, such it's a heavily pop-influenced record, there are tons of hooks, and my issue is just whether the hooks are creative ones or whether they're cheesy. I had an argument with someone over at Jarchives about the song "Scenic Route", which they claimed had no hook whatsoever, but to me that song has tons of hooks even if it doesn't have a singular "chorus" that is easily recalled. Similar thing with "Safe to Land", which is one of the group's all-time best songs. They experimented a bit with song structure in those cases.

And fourth, I'm not big on Dan's lyrics here. The sentiments he expresses are all fine, and some of his turns of phrase are quite memorable, but they don't really seem to flow with any kind of rhythm or momentum, which you really need in pop songs like these.

What's an example of an older Jars song or two that has that "lyrical momentum", and how does this album not follow suit?

In terms of subject matter, it's clearly a shift to more of a relational approach, so I can understand why that might not hit the same people who were really taken by the more directly spiritual and confessional nature of Who We Are Instead or Good Monsters.

So all in all, while there's nothing here that I think is particularly bad, there's also nothing that engages me.

How about "There Might Be a Light"? That one's particularly bad.
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Aaron
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« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2009, 02:54:25 PM »

When I think of crap, I think of the Killers!  laugh  I'm not sure any band would want to be compared to them nowadays, especially musically.  (end tangent)
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murlough23
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« Reply #44 on: July 08, 2009, 02:56:47 PM »

When I think of crap, I think of the Killers!  laugh  I'm not sure any band would want to be compared to them nowadays, especially musically.  (end tangent)

Stylistically, I like what The Killers do. I've found that I like the 80's-nostalgia sound when it's anchored by a good rhythm section, which most of that new wave stuff wasn't when it actually still was the 80's. It's just that a good percentage of The Killers' lyrics suck, and Brandon Flowers' caterwauling takes a toll.
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Aaron
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« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2009, 03:14:34 PM »

Stylistically, I like what The Killers do. I've found that I like the 80's-nostalgia sound when it's anchored by a good rhythm section, which most of that new wave stuff wasn't when it actually still was the 80's. It's just that a good percentage of The Killers' lyrics suck, and Brandon Flowers' caterwauling takes a toll.


He just can't really sing.  In live performances, he is usually off-key. That's why I've been recommending White Lies this year.  A band from Britain that does the same style but 100% better.


Ok, back to Jars.
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spacebrat311
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« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2009, 05:07:30 PM »

I'm basically with Josh on this one, although I don't think the album reminds me so much of the Killers as of the rash of local 80s inspired indie worship bands I've been hearing the last couple years. I'll try to think of a good example, because it's a sound I can definitely identify in my head, but I don't know exactly how to define it.
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murlough23
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« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2009, 05:27:40 PM »

I'm basically with Josh on this one, although I don't think the album reminds me so much of the Killers as of the rash of local 80s inspired indie worship bands I've been hearing the last couple years. I'll try to think of a good example, because it's a sound I can definitely identify in my head, but I don't know exactly how to define it.

What's going to differentiate Jars from some of those presumably mediocre worship bands will be the lyrics (just do to the sole fact that nothing on this album is a "worship song" outside of a loose classification of "Two Hands"), and probably the instrumental variation. I'm gonna guess the glut of 80's inspired worship bands (which I didn't know existed, I thought they were all stuck in the 90's and early 2000's trying to imitate SonicFlood and Chris Tomlin, but then I guess those artists in turn owe a lot to U2's 80's stuff) have less variance and less of a sense of craftsmanship, unless I'm wrong and you find some of them to be rather remarkable.
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spacebrat311
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« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2009, 05:31:57 PM »

Yeah, the lyrics are definitely better. I don't find anything on The Long Fall Back to Earth particularly musically impressive, though, so they're about neck and neck there.
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murlough23
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« Reply #49 on: July 08, 2009, 05:41:59 PM »

Yeah, the lyrics are definitely better. I don't find anything on The Long Fall Back to Earth particularly musically impressive, though, so they're about neck and neck there.

I've already named the impressive songs, but again, we have completely different concepts of what constitutes "a hook".
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spacebrat311
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« Reply #50 on: July 08, 2009, 05:45:52 PM »

I was thinking about musical impressiveness in relation to this conversation and I had a tangential realization- I think that a lot of how I judge whether or not an album is impressive to me musically is based on whether I would want to be able to claim to be in the band that wrote it or not. Weird.
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murlough23
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« Reply #51 on: July 08, 2009, 05:47:03 PM »

I was thinking about musical impressiveness in relation to this conversation and I had a tangential realization- I think that a lot of how I judge whether or not an album is impressive to me musically is based on whether I would want to be able to claim to be in the band that wrote it or not. Weird.

Damn. That is weird. I just judge by whether it gets stuck in my head and I like it being stuck there.
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spacebrat311
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« Reply #52 on: July 08, 2009, 05:50:53 PM »

Yeah, I thought that was me too. I just realized that I totally insert myself into all the music I listen to, and that I don't think I have the ability not to do it.
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murlough23
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« Reply #53 on: July 08, 2009, 06:01:55 PM »

Yeah, I thought that was me too. I just realized that I totally insert myself into all the music I listen to, and that I don't think I have the ability not to do it.

I probably get most excited about the bands who play the kind of music that I would love to play if I were in a band (see Fleet Foxes), but just because I can't play the piano or operate a sequencer doesn't mean I can't get into bands from other genres.

I get excited about Jars of Clay because they change things up and they challenge my perception of what makes a good pop song. I wasn't really into the more sparse, folksy sound of WWAI when that one first came out, even though I liked a lot of acoustic artists - that album has been a springboard for me to get into more of those types of artists. Similarly, I used to flinch at a lot of things that were 80's-influenced (especially new wave), because most of my experience with 80's music is one-off novelty hits that everybody seems to know but me and that they get excited about at parties or when they come on the radio and I'm just like, "What the hell is this crap?" So again, Jars of Clay challenged my perception of a genre I didn't care for much with this new album.

I figure if I were in the band, I'd probably be one of the people trying to stop them from changing, and I'd probably get kicked out of the band for being uncooperative!

NP: "Wish You Well", Katie Herzig
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spacebrat311
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« Reply #54 on: July 08, 2009, 06:13:30 PM »

I'm not saying I insert myself based on instruments I already know how to play, or based on specific musical styles. I just insert myself into music the way a lot of people talk about inserting themselves into the place of the main character in their favorite movies. If anything, that means that sometimes the things that are farthest outside my experience and abilities are the things that interest me most.
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murlough23
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« Reply #55 on: July 08, 2009, 06:15:20 PM »

I'm not saying I insert myself based on instruments I already know how to play, or based on specific musical styles. I just insert myself into music the way a lot of people talk about inserting themselves into the place of the main character in their favorite movies. If anything, that means that sometimes the things that are farthest outside my experience and abilities are the things that interest me most.

I don't fully understand that, but I think it's kinda cool.
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spacebrat311
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« Reply #56 on: July 08, 2009, 06:38:47 PM »

This is the same reason I like science fiction so much- because I could never go to space in real life. Anyways, Jars of Clay...
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