Best Jars of Clay Album?

[murlough23]

Since we were discussing this in the thread for The Long Fall Back to Earth, I figured I'd take a poll. I didn't include TLFBTE because it hasn't realized yet and I don't think the few of us who have actually listened to it really have a handle on it yet. Certainly too soon to declare it their best, if one would declare that at all.

I know Much Afraid will lose the battle here, but that's part of the reason why it's my favorite - it's the underdog Jars of Clay album that I tend to have fun defending. It's melancholy, and it's an album that really tries to understand its emotional issues rather than just whining about them. And it's melodically delicious in ways that may be too dark for CCM fans raised on a diet of major key happiness. It's the most "me" of any of their albums.

[bloop]

Who We Are Instead floored me.

[spacebrat311]

Who We Are Instead definitely takes this spot for me, but Much Afraid is a reasonably close second. I love that the arrangements on Much Afraid are both stripped down and lush all at once.

[murlough23]

I could have allowed voting for more than one (say, your top three), but I felt that wouldn't give weighted credit to our #1 favorites.

[dgp11776]

Who We Are Instead floored me.

Same here.  And "Jealous Kind" still does every time I hear it.  It's my favorite song of theirs, and quite possibly my favorite song, period.

[murlough23]

The song highlights on WWAI have the same effect on me that they do on you guys (the aforementioned "Jealous Kind" as well as my personal favorites, "Lesser Things" and "Trouble Is"), but that album gets dragged down a bit for me by a few lethargic tracks, the repetitiveness of "Jesus' Blood Never Failed Me Yet", and the insipidness of "Sunny Days". That makes it rate an A minus for me, which means that despite those flaws, the rest of it is still pretty damn awesome.

NP: "Dancing Choose", TV on the Radio

[spacebrat311]

For me the repetition of Jesus' Blood is part of the appeal. I also see it more as an interlude than a song in its own right, so that's how I'm judging it.

[murlough23]

For me the repetition of Jesus' Blood is part of the appeal. I also see it more as an interlude than a song in its own right, so that's how I'm judging it.

Interludes are generally shorter. I have this same problem with a few tracks on Christmas Songs (like "Winter Skin", which is the same length as the full song "Hibernation Day").

[spacebrat311]

Generally, but not by necessity.

[murlough23]

Generally, but not by necessity.

That one sure needs it!

[Aaron]

Can we have another thread for Favorite Jars album? haha

[murlough23]

Can we have another thread for Favorite Jars album? haha

I knew we had discussed it before; I just couldn't remember if we'd done the poll. I'm sure the topic comes up at least once per album.

NP: "Get Some", Chevelle

[bloop]

Yeah, we need another one in a month's time that includes the new one.

I really enjoyed "Jesus Blood" and "Sunny Days", and I've never thought of myself as one for the insipid.

I see Good Monsters isn't doing too bad, either.  "Light Gives Heat" is a wonderful song.

[murlough23]

Yeah, we need another one in a month's time that includes the new one.

I can see if I can reset the poll at some point... but I think it should be after several months, not just one.

I really enjoyed "Jesus Blood" and "Sunny Days", and I've never thought of myself as one for the insipid.

I can't help it. The first lines of "Sunny Days" always make me think of Sesame Street.

NP: "Detroit", Sufjan Stevens

[bloop]

I can see if I can reset the poll at some point... but I think it should be after several months, not just one.

Yeah, maybe.  I think I could figure out pretty quickly if it's knocking WWAI off the top.  It may take longer to come up with a solid ranking, though.

[murlough23]

Yeah, maybe.  I think I could figure out pretty quickly if it's knocking WWAI off the top.  It may take longer to come up with a solid ranking, though.

I'm pretty sure it's not going to penetrate my Top 4, but we'll see.

[bloop]

It's my favorite song of theirs, and quite possibly my favorite song, period.

If you ever become sure of that, I envy your ability to choose a favorite song ever.  I couldn't bring myself to make the cuts necessary to choose only one.

[murlough23]

I've said for a long time that "Like a Child" is my favorite song EVAR by anyone. If I were to really try to compile a list and make all of the songs that I loved the most duke it out with one another, though, I'm willing to bet there'd be some other song that might edge it out. But thematically, that's the one that grabs me the most and describes me (or the me that I want to be) the best.

NP: "Another 10 Miles (live)", Caedmon's Call

[danny316]

I'm pretty sure it's not going to penetrate my Top 4, but we'll see.

I'm the same way. My top 4 favorite Jars albums are the first three and WWAI. I like a few songs on each of the other albums too, but I only consider MA, IILTZ, JoC, and WWAI to be great albums the whole way through. I'm finding it increasingly hard to rank them against each other, though - I love them for very different reasons.

Beyond there:
T11H
Good Monsters
Furthermore
RS
CS

These list threads have been bugging me for a while - since RS, any time I take stock of their catalog, I realize that there's a full half of it that I'm just not excited about. I'm not much of a fan anymore, am I?

[Aaron]

the first one is a sentimental favorite but musically, it is inferior to Much Afraid, If I Left The Zoo, Who We Are Instead, Good Monsters, and The Eleventh Hour.

[spacebrat311]

I never liked the debut much at all other than Liquid. So sue me.

[NinjaRob17]

I'm going to say Who We Are Instead.

[worldofcm]

I never liked the debut much at all other than Liquid. So sue me.

I'm actually very much the same way.  To me, JoC's best is Who We Are Instead - however, Much Afraid and Good Monsters are very very very very very very close behind it.

[murlough23]

I think the songwriting on the debut is pretty solid. Stylistically, I don't mind the strings and folksy instruments plus programmed beats that dominate the album. These were bells and whistles of the production that followed in line with what they came up on their demo, Frail, and that gave a boost to a new band - it made the songs stand out more than they might have with just your typical guitar/bass/drums combo. The production was lacking on that album, and that might have been a result of a fledgling label's small budget at the time. (Actually, I think the entire thing was self-produced aside from "Liquid" and "Flood", and well, the guys still had a lot to learn between then and TEH.) To me that's its biggest flaw. I can't say that any of the individual songs are weak in terms of the songwriting and performance. Some of them are structured more simplistically, but even in the simplest ones there's poetry to be found. For a debut, it's pretty darn good - the only reason you don't hear me gushing about it all the time is because they've blown it away so many times since then.

[spacebrat311]

I actually like the rawness of the production. I just don't really like the songs at all.

[bloop]

It's hard for me to be objective with their debut.  I know that it's really pretty good, but my colleagues at school overplayed both that and dc Talk to the point that I almost only hear their flaws.   

[Josh]

I'd probably say Who We Are Instead, but, honestly, I think Redemption Songs is their most consistent song, track-for-track and pound-for-pound, and it's probably the one I listen to the most, and the one that moves me the most. Of course, since it doesn't have any original songs, I understand why it's generally regarded as one of their more minor albums, but there's something to be said for a band that can take material that is, quite literally, sacred, and, with one big glaring exception, record it all with both reverence and creative vigor.

I also have a soft spot in my heart for the goofy, rough quality of If I Left the Zoo-- criminally underrated, in my opinion.

And Good Monsters might have the highest concentration of stone-classic Jars songs on it, but also the highest concentration of Jars songs that I just don't much care for.

[murlough23]

It's hard for me to be objective with their debut.  I know that it's really pretty good, but my colleagues at school overplayed both that and dc Talk to the point that I almost only hear their flaws.   

I feel a similar conflict whenever I'm at a Jars concert and a decade-old song gets rapturous applause while the new stuff gets a lukewarm response at best. When I'm not at a Jars concert, I love "Worlds Apart". When I'm at a Jars concert, I'm like, "Dammit, they're playing 'Worlds Apart' again! There go three other songs that could have been in the setlist!"

[danny316]

I feel a similar conflict whenever I'm at a Jars concert and a decade-old song gets rapturous applause while the new stuff gets a lukewarm response at best. When I'm not at a Jars concert, I love "Worlds Apart". When I'm at a Jars concert, I'm like, "Dammit, they're playing 'Worlds Apart' again! There go three other songs that could have been in the setlist!"

If I Left the Zoo (my vote here) was a decade ago now. If they put some of the better tracks from that one back on the setlist, I'd be all for it. Heck, they could probably do a 10-minute version of "Collide" instead of "Worlds Apart".

Of course, that EP last year marks a welcome return to "trying to make you hate the songs" so they don't have to play them anymore. Of course, Furthermore didn't really kill off "Liquid" (and they've been playing that again anyway), so I don't know what they think they'll accomplish there.

I wish they'd leave their newfound (post-RS) habit of playing really new songs and really old songs almost exclusively, though. They played a reasonable (if Zoo-free) set for GMC recently, so I know they still have it in 'em to play a wider variety.

[murlough23]

If I Left the Zoo (my vote here) was a decade ago now. If they put some of the better tracks from that one back on the setlist, I'd be all for it. Heck, they could probably do a 10-minute version of "Collide" instead of "Worlds Apart".

Jars is not a prog band; I don't need them to do a 10-minute version of anything. "Worlds Apart" was beautiful the first few times I heard it live. But nowadays I wish they'd show more confidence in their newer material instead of always having to trot out the same old favorites from the first album.

Of course, that EP last year marks a welcome return to "trying to make you hate the songs" so they don't have to play them anymore. Of course, Furthermore didn't really kill off "Liquid" (and they've been playing that again anyway), so I don't know what they think they'll accomplish there.

They had genuinely wanted to re-record the entire first album in their newer style at some point. I seem to recall Dan mentioning that on the Jarchives board once upon a time. That's the sort of thing I'd be interested to hear, but that I'd be afraid for the rest of the fanbase to get a hold of, because it would lead to a resurgence in interest in those songs which would subsequently influence setlists for the worse.

Plus, they haven't done a good version of "Liquid" (live or in studio) since their 1996 tour, save for an acoustic show on their RS tour where they played it fairly straight based on the self-titled album version, given the instruments available.

I wish they'd leave their newfound (post-RS) habit of playing really new songs and really old songs almost exclusively, though. They played a reasonable (if Zoo-free) set for GMC recently, so I know they still have it in 'em to play a wider variety.

I'd like variety, but I'm OK with it if we don't hear much from MA and IILTZ live any more. I went to their shows plenty of times when those albums were new. I just wish the self-titled would diminish similarly.

NP: "White Winter Hymnal", Fleet Foxes

[ajyouthguy]

And "Jealous Kind" still does every time I hear it.  It's my favorite song of theirs, and quite possibly my favorite song, period.

that's Worlds Apart for me...since the summer of 96, when it first just really nailed me, it has been my favorite song and really nothing has come very close to that for me as far as a life-song (not to be confused with the Casting Crowns album/song by that title).  Every group of youth i've had in the 11 years I've been at my church has heard Worlds Apart a few times and has heard me say it is my favorite all-time song  and has been for well over a decade.

[murlough23]

that's Worlds Apart for me...since the summer of 96, when it first just really nailed me, it has been my favorite song and really nothing has come very close to that for me as far as a life-song (not to be confused with the Casting Crowns album/song by that title).  Every group of youth i've had in the 11 years I've been at my church has heard Worlds Apart a few times and has heard me say it is my favorite all-time song  and has been for well over a decade.

I feel that way about "Like a Child", but I don't miss it when it isn't played. Just because I love a song doesn't mean I need to hear it every freakin' tour.

NP: "Sky Blue", Peter Gabriel feat. the Blind Boys of Alabama

[danny316]

Jars is not a prog band; I don't need them to do a 10-minute version of anything.

I, for one, would like to hear them give that a try. I don't think they've ever tried anything longer than "Frail", but I'm convinced that they have the chops to pull off a few proggy epics. Of course, knowing them, they'd folk it up and wind up with something else like "Oh My God".

"Worlds Apart" was beautiful the first few times I heard it live. But nowadays I wish they'd show more confidence in their newer material instead of always having to trot out the same old favorites from the first album.

I like the idea of mixing in some hits and fan-favorites from years gone by - I just think that you have to not focus on the same few songs over and over again. They've also had a pretty mixed track record with actually picking the right song to stick with, too - "I'm Alright" and "Crazy Times" shouldn't have stayed in their regular sets for as long as they did. I'm happy that "Revolution" has stayed on, but it's not like that's the only fan-favorite rocker they can pull out (and I'm worried that might overstay its welcome now too).

I have the same criticism of most of my favorite career artists, but at least Jars hasn't completely ignored the highlights from their catalog.

They had genuinely wanted to re-record the entire first album in their newer style at some point. I seem to recall Dan mentioning that on the Jarchives board once upon a time. That's the sort of thing I'd be interested to hear, but that I'd be afraid for the rest of the fanbase to get a hold of, because it would lead to a resurgence in interest in those songs which would subsequently influence setlists for the worse.

I remember discussing that with you on Jarchives and I'll stick by what I said - interesting as a DVD package, terrible as something to release as a regular CD.

I'd like variety, but I'm OK with it if we don't hear much from MA and IILTZ live any more. I went to their shows plenty of times when those albums were new. I just wish the self-titled would diminish similarly.

I'll agree that the three should be treated fairly, but I don't want them to ignore their "glory days". If they picked one or two highlights from those three albums out of a hat each show, I'd be pretty happy. I don't want them to become the Rolling Stones (or in Christian music, Audio A or Newsboys would work well for comparisons), but they ought to show some respect for their longtime fans and awesome back catalog too (this goes for all of their albums - I want to hear the occasional non-"Show You Love"/"I Need You" from WWAI and T11H as well).

[Aaron]

LYKE JESUS FREAK IS DA BEST! 



oh wait..wrong group...wrong thread...

[murlough23]

LYKE JESUS FREAK IS DA BEST! 

You know, if dc Talk were still playing shows and releasing albums as a group, I'd be like "enough already" with that song, too. Especially the dumb-ass long pause that they used to do in the middle of it (kinda like what Jars of Clay used to do during "Flood").

[bloop]

dc Talk.  Yeah.  Has the backlash started there yet?

[murlough23]

dc Talk.  Yeah.  Has the backlash started there yet?

What backlash? I still like the music they made (post-Free at Last, anyway.) I've lost interest in all of the solo careers save for maybe Kevin's, and I understand that the group will probably never reunite and it would probably be a trainwreck if they did. I'll live.

[bloop]

The backlash I wish would have surfaced ca. 1996.

[murlough23]

The backlash I wish would have surfaced ca. 1996.

Oh. I think that happened in 1998 when Supernatural came out.

[Aaron]

Oh. I think that happened in 1998 when Supernatural came out.

Which is sad because it was a superior album, musically.