Switchfoot - "Hello Hurricane"

[murlough23]

...don't think the phrase is meant to be taken literally

Don't care. It's irritating.

[bloop]

I find the phrase more mildly amusing than irritating.

[murlough23]

I find the phrase more mildly amusing than irritating.

Probably because you know it irritates me. 

It's just one of those rhetorical questions that doesn't make any sense. I know it's not meant to be taken literally, but the implication is either (a) you must have crappy speakers, or (b) you must not be paying attention, with the underlying conclusion being, "If you were listening they way I was listening, then clearly you would get it." And I think the opinions of several respectable people here whose opinions run the gamut from love to hate can easily refute that.

[plvarona]

Might as well chime in on this same CD that we're all hearing, now that I've had a chance to let it sink in a bit more.  I will say that this CD has grown on me quite a bit.  I liked it a lot to begin with, and now a number of the songs are getting stuck in my head.  I'm still not 100% clear as to where I'd rank it within their whole discography, although I will say it will rank in the #2-#4 range.  It's not going to displace The Beautiful Letdown as my favorite Switchfoot CD, but I would definitely put it ahead of Nothing is Sound, The Legend of Chin and New Way to be Human.

[murlough23]

For those who have had favorable responses to this album - what are your favorite tracks and why? Want to listen more deeply to the tracks that folks consider to be the lights.

My personal favorites so far are "Mess of Me" and "The Sound" - I don't hate any of the other songs, but I'm having trouble finding highlights beyond that top tier.

[ajyouthguy]

"Free" is my favorite song on the album.

[murlough23]

"Free" is my favorite song on the album.

You left out the "why".

[eatenbytehworms]

^ People like the "When the Levee Breaks"-esque riff (a song SF likes enough to play over the PA system as a lead into MTL in the beginning of concerts), the melody (which happens to be almost the same as "War Pigs"...hope Ozzy doesn't pull a Satriani/Coldplay thing), the obvious subject of the song (God), and the scream in the bridge.

[ajyouthguy]

^ People like the "When the Levee Breaks"-esque riff (a song SF likes enough to play over the PA system as a lead into MTL in the beginning of concerts), the melody (which happens to be almost the same as "War Pigs"...hope Ozzy doesn't pull a Satriani/Coldplay thing), the obvious subject of the song (God), and the scream in the bridge.

Don't know anything about the "When the Levee Breaks"-esque riff, or the "War Pigs" melody, or the bridge scream (hadn't noticed it)...did pick up on the more obvious spiritual context of the song in relation to some, but that's not why i like it.  it's just been the most 'memorable' and catchy type song on the album for me, musically and lyrically, so far, and it's a hecka lotta fun, the one i come back to most often.

[NinjaRob17]

the melody (which happens to be almost the same as "War Pigs"...hope Ozzy doesn't pull a Satriani/Coldplay thing)

Wow, I didn't even notice that the first time I listened to it. That's pretty bad.

[plvarona]

My personal favorites so far are "Mess of Me" and "The Sound"

Those are actually two of my favorites on the album as well.  Here are some other songs that stick out to me:

"Bullet Soul": I just find this song's rhythm to be quite catchy.  Yes, it does borrow a little bit from previous songs "Poparazzi", "Amateur Lovers" and "Easier Than Love", but I think it's still pretty fun.

"Hello Hurricane": The repeated electronic part that runs throughout the whole song helps move it along for me.  The lyrics also strike a chord with me, because I've lived in areas that have been rather prone to hurricanes over the last few years.

"Sing It Out": I don't think I'm going to get too much agreement on this one.  I just love the instrumentation here, especially how the song starts out softly, and then gradually builds to a climax at the final chorus, before slowly fading at the end.

[murlough23]

"Bullet Soul": I just find this song's rhythm to be quite catchy.  Yes, it does borrow a little bit from previous songs "Poparazzi", "Amateur Lovers" and "Easier Than Love", but I think it's still pretty fun.

I enjoy this one, but it's one of those tracks that feels like they took a template from a better song and re-used it. I feel the same way about "Burn Out Bright" from Oh! Gravity.

"Hello Hurricane": The repeated electronic part that runs throughout the whole song helps move it along for me.  The lyrics also strike a chord with me, because I've lived in areas that have been rather prone to hurricanes over the last few years.

I find this one to be a bit weak as a title track. The metaphor isn't working for me. The chorus feels awkward.

"Sing It Out": I don't think I'm going to get too much agreement on this one.  I just love the instrumentation here, especially how the song starts out softly, and then gradually builds to a climax at the final chorus, before slowly fading at the end.

I'm starting to like this one quite a bit. Surprised?

[worldofcm]

So sick of people saying that. It's the same recording. Just because we don't react the same doesn't mean we're not paying attention.

Wow.  Panties in a wad, much?

[murlough23]

Wow.  Panties in a wad, much?

You just suffered the unfortunate coincidence of being the latest in a long line of people to ask that rhetorical question. What is the point of asking it? How is it helpful?

[worldofcm]

You just suffered the unfortunate coincidence of being the latest in a long line of people to ask that rhetorical question. What is the point of asking it? How is it helpful?

It's not helpful - it's a phrase that I find let's people know that I'm hearing things differently then them.  You didn't have to be a jerk about it.  Ignoring something you dislike isn't really an option for you is it?

[murlough23]

It's not helpful - it's a phrase that I find let's people know that I'm hearing things differently then them.

You didn't have to be a jerk about it.

Right, because calling a person a jerk is a non-jerky thing to do.

Ignoring something you dislike isn't really an option for you is it?

Nope. I will speak up about it every time. If you don't like it, don't do it.

[worldofcm]

Right, because calling a person a jerk is a non-jerky thing to do.

I believe I proved my point.

Nope. I will speak up about it every time. If you don't like it, don't do it.

And that's just dumb...

[murlough23]

I believe I proved my point.

If so, then you did it by lowering yourself to my level. Congratulations, I think?

And that's just dumb...

So you've never spoken up about a pet peeve of yours?

[bloop]

Hmm.  Looks like someone wants to join the panty-bunching club.

[worldofcm]

If so, then you did it by lowering yourself to my level. Congratulations, I think?

A spade is a spade, and I called it as such.

So you've never spoken up about a pet peeve of yours?

Sure - but not about everyone. 

[worldofcm]

Hmm.  Looks like someone wants to join the panty-bunching club.

Oh, I never said I wasn't already a full-fledged member.  I get my panties in a wad just as much as the next guy.  I just think this has to be the silliest reason I've ever seen someone get upset about something.  It's a stinkin' phrase already...

[murlough23]

Hmm.  Looks like someone wants to join the panty-bunching club.

Seriously. This is basically amounting to "Takes one to know one."

I wasn't even trying to be a jerk about it, I just needed to say that I've heard the "Are we listening to the same album?" cliche to the point where it's grown really tiresome, and can we please stop saying that? I know it's rhetorical, I know it has no malicious intent, but it's just like any other catch phrase that's been run into the ground to the point where I'm sick of hearing it. Keep using it if you want (I don't make the rules here), but expect to hear my objections when you do. If someone found one of my frequent sayings annoying, I would try to accommodate them similarly.

[worldofcm]

Seriously. This is basically amounting to "Takes one to know one."

I wasn't even trying to be a jerk about it, I just needed to say that I've heard the "Are we listening to the same album?" cliche to the point where it's grown really tiresome, and can we please stop saying that? I know it's rhetorical, I know it has no malicious intent, but it's just like any other catch phrase that's been run into the ground to the point where I'm sick of hearing it. Keep using it if you want (I don't make the rules here), but expect to hear my objections when you do. If someone found one of my frequent sayings annoying, I would try to accommodate them similarly.

Thoroughly admitted in response above.

My point is - get over yourself.  Just because you're sick of a phrase doesn't mean everyone else is - and maybe the rest of the world doesn't want to see your tirade every time someone uses the phrase.  Is it really too much for you to just ignore it?  Especially when NO ONE ELSE in the thread objected to it?

[murlough23]

Oh, I never said I wasn't already a full-fledged member.  I get my panties in a wad just as much as the next guy.

Tit for tat. Nice.

I just think this has to be the silliest reason I've ever seen someone get upset about something.  It's a stinkin' phrase already...

Again, you were the last in a long list of people who said it. A mild irritant can become a major annoyance over time if you're continuously bombarded with it.

[bloop]

Ian is a big boy, and seems like a pretty cool-headed and resilient guy to me.  If he wasn't so offended as to put up a big fuss over murlough's reaction, I really don't see why anyone else needs to be.  

I've already gone on record in saying that I'm not particularly offended by the phrase, but I've used it a couple times, so there it is.

[murlough23]

Ian is a big boy, and seems like a pretty cool-headed and resilient guy to me.  If he wasn't so offended as to put up a big fuss over murlough's reaction, I really don't see why anyone else needs to be.

My argument with Ian was a separate thing, resolved before worldofcm made the "same album?" comment. Ian commented in defense of the phrase, but he wasn't the one who posted it, at least not in this instance. (I may have made the same complaint if he or you or anyone else said it elsewhere.)

I've already gone on record in saying that I'm not particularly offended by the phrase, but I've used it a couple times, so there it is.

"Offended" isn't the right word to describe my reaction. It's not like I take it as a personal affront. The construction crew that starts jackhammering outside my window at 6 AM isn't offensive - they're not doing it with the sole intent of keeping me awake. But it is annoying.

[bloop]

Ah, yes, true.

Still, my reaction remains that this is pretty shrug-worthy.

[murlough23]

Thoroughly admitted in response above.

Well, that's the difference between us - you're admitting to being a jerk, and normally when you acknowledge something like that, you take measures to change it. I'm only admitting to expressing an annoyance which I was well within my rights to express. I was well within my rights to point out the inanity of the phrase. I did it without personally insulting the person who said it. I only pointed out that the answer to the question was obvious, and thus that its rhetorical usage (not just by you, but by a number of people) was frustrating to me.

My point is - get over yourself.

There are clearly other issues in play here if you're going to make this personal. Take it to private message if you need to air some sort of grievance with me.

Just because you're sick of a phrase doesn't mean everyone else is - and maybe the rest of the world doesn't want to see your tirade every time someone uses the phrase. Is it really too much for you to just ignore it?  Especially when NO ONE ELSE in the thread objected to it?

Does the fact that something only bothers or offends a single person, or a minority group of people for that matter, mean that it's OK for people to just ignore or bulldoze that person when they speak up? using that logic, men can tell sexist jokes in the workplace so long as there's only one woman present to be offended by it. Or, let's forget about things that are truly offensive - I can play my music loudly in my cubicle if there's only one person in my general vicinity who is distracted by it, and everyone else is cool with it.

The truth is that the continued usage of statements like that contributes to a snobbish sort of culture that I don't want to see this place turn into. That doesn't mean that I or any other person should get to make arbitrary rules about phrases that can/cannot be used. I'm not trying to make you or anyone walk on eggshells. I'm just saying, if you do something that gets on a person's nerves and they request that you not keep doing it, maybe try being a nice guy and throwing them a bone.* You may be well within your rights to continue saying/doing it, but let's consider more than just what we can get away with. I've had to do the same when I've said/done things here that have ruffled people's feathers, even if I "didn't mean anything by it".

I feel like the attitude I'm getting from you here is, "I'll do whatever I want, and if you're gonna be a whiner, you can just deal."

(*Somebody will inevitably remind me during a later discussion that I said this. Fair enough.)

[murlough23]

Still, my reaction remains that this is pretty shrug-worthy.

In the grand scheme of things, yeah. I didn't even consider it that big of a deal when I brought it up - it was just a little thing that I thought the world might be a slightly nicer place if it stopped happening. Now that I've got somebody crawling up my ass for speaking up about it, though, I kind of feel that it's important to stand my ground instead of letting him berate me into submission.

Isn't this how the heated arguments usually start around here, though? One person expresses a minor annoyance with something, and somebody else thinks they've been read the riot act and retaliates, and then other folks who weren't even involved in the discussion horn in and start telling people how to act? (Consider that a pre-emptive strike, lurkers who are tempted to play guidance counselor.) I've been on all sides of that one. What's the other option, never speak up about stuff that gets on your nerves?

[Ian]

You people must not be reading the same topic.

[murlough23]

You people must not be reading the same topic.

Why you little... 

[ajyouthguy]

man, see what i miss when i'm tied up for one day?

back on subject, my favorite song is still "Free," and it doesn't have anything to do with any of the reasons mentioned above.

also, way back, murlough, you mentioned the Hello Hurricane theme idea not resonating with you, and i can get that, but i will tell you that there are plenty of people out there who DO need something like that because of storms they've faced in the recent past, present company included with some of the tough things our church and youth ministry have been through.  that said, i don't necessarily see the album as much themed along that lines as Jon makes it seem he wanted people to believe it was.

[murlough23]

also, way back, murlough, you mentioned the Hello Hurricane theme idea not resonating with you, and i can get that, but i will tell you that there are plenty of people out there who DO need something like that because of storms they've faced in the recent past, present company included with some of the tough things our church and youth ministry have been through.  that said, i don't necessarily see the album as much themed along that lines as Jon makes it seem he wanted people to believe it was.

I just didn't feel that they did all that much with the analogy. The metaphor could be a great one or a lousy one independent of whether I'd ever experienced a hurricane personally - it's all in the details, which for the most part, sound like every other Christian song about going through a storm.

It could be titled "Hello Earthquake" and I'd feel the same. I've been through plenty of those.

[dgp11776]

I like every song on the album.

[worldofcm]

Well, that's the difference between us - you're admitting to being a jerk, and normally when you acknowledge something like that, you take measures to change it. I'm only admitting to expressing an annoyance which I was well within my rights to express. I was well within my rights to point out the inanity of the phrase. I did it without personally insulting the person who said it. I only pointed out that the answer to the question was obvious, and thus that its rhetorical usage (not just by you, but by a number of people) was frustrating to me.

Right - you're only admitting to biting my head off for using a phrase that I had no clue really bothered you that much.  But that's not being a jerk or anything.

There are clearly other issues in play here if you're going to make this personal. Take it to private message if you need to air some sort of grievance with me.

Nope, no issues other than you going off the deep end for no solid reason.  You don't like the phrase - that's fine - but I still don't understand why everyone ELSE has to conform to what you want - rather than you just ignoring it.

Does the fact that something only bothers or offends a single person, or a minority group of people for that matter, mean that it's OK for people to just ignore or bulldoze that person when they speak up? using that logic, men can tell sexist jokes in the workplace so long as there's only one woman present to be offended by it. Or, let's forget about things that are truly offensive - I can play my music loudly in my cubicle if there's only one person in my general vicinity who is distracted by it, and everyone else is cool with it.

This kind of comparison is just funny to me.  You can't really compare how you jumped down my throat for using a phrase to "playing music too loudly in the workplace" or sexism.  You don't typically use straw-man arguments - so it's funny to see it done here. 

The truth is that the continued usage of statements like that contributes to a snobbish sort of culture that I don't want to see this place turn into. That doesn't mean that I or any other person should get to make arbitrary rules about phrases that can/cannot be used. I'm not trying to make you or anyone walk on eggshells.

It sure looks like it by all that you've said in this thread.  Has anyone else on these Phorums used the phrase abundantly? Has this kind of attitude been common?  It was one phrase, used one time on The Phorum.  It's not like they turned into CMC over night or anything.  I think you overreacted - and clearly you don't think so.

I'm just saying, if you do something that gets on a person's nerves and they request that you not keep doing it, maybe try being a nice guy and throwing them a bone.* You may be well within your rights to continue saying/doing it, but let's consider more than just what we can get away with. I've had to do the same when I've said/done things here that have ruffled people's feathers, even if I "didn't mean anything by it".

Again - it was the first time the phrase had been used here.  Was it really that big of a deal to jump down someone's throat about? Really? I can understand if it was being used all the time here, and there were repeated requests to not use it.  But give me a break David.  Why couldn't you just ignore it? (And I don't care about all your other times reading it across the internet.  We aren't talking about those instances - because they have no bearing on how you act HERE.)

I feel like the attitude I'm getting from you here is, "I'll do whatever I want, and if you're gonna be a whiner, you can just deal."

Funny, because that's the attitude I feel like I'm getting from you. You're mistaking that attitude with what I'm actually saying: "You were wrong.  Why can't you admit it?"

For the record, despite what David may assume, I don't regularly use the phrase, and I don't plan on using it again any time soon.  I'm not even sure why I used it in the first place, so no, there's none of this "I'm gonna do whatever I want, so David can sit on it" type of attitude from me. 

[ajyouthguy]

will one of you please just be man enough to just drop the petty argument and quit cluttering up this page for the actual posts about the album?

[murlough23]

Right - you're only admitting to biting my head off for using a phrase that I had no clue really bothered you that much.  But that's not being a jerk or anything.

I didn't bite your head off. I expressed what I didn't like about the phrase. This was not, "You committed some massive transgression and shall be punished", this was, "Can we stop using this phrase?" I could have expressed this as a polite request instead of being snarky, so I will apologize for that, but that does not mean I was wrong to bring it up.

Nope, no issues other than you going off the deep end for no solid reason.

It's only in your perception that I went off the deep end, though. That's my issue here. I made a single complaint. It got construed as something a lot bigger than that by you. It's a much bigger issue now, of course, because we've spent so much text on it, but at the beginning, it was one of those things where my day would be a little better if people would stop saying that. If they can't, I can deal.

You don't like the phrase - that's fine - but I still don't understand why everyone ELSE has to conform to what you want - rather than you just ignoring it.

You know, from someone who professes to be a member of the "panties in a wad" club and seems to even be proud of his right to be a jerk (just repeating labels you've accepted earlier in the thread as describing you), it is EXTREMELY hypocritical of you to tell me to "just ignore it". You're the one who made a mountain out of a molehill here.

Everybody else does not have to conform. I did not make a rule. I do not have the authority to make a rule. I am making a request.

This kind of comparison is just funny to me.  You can't really compare how you jumped down my throat for using a phrase to "playing music too loudly in the workplace" or sexism.  You don't typically use straw-man arguments - so it's funny to see it done here.

The sexism thing is a serious offense as opposed to a minor annoyance, so the analogy doesn't work. I'll retract that. My point still stands that just because the majority is not offended/bothered by something does not mean that a single person does not a right to speak up when they are offended/bothered by it. I don't have a great analogy for it at the moment. You'll just have to think in the abstract.

It sure looks like it by all that you've said in this thread.  Has anyone else on these Phorums used the phrase abundantly? Has this kind of attitude been common?

Says the person who only occasionally posts here. Are you really even around enough to know what things are like here?

Yes, it's been common and there have been other arguments on this subject. It may not involve that exact phrase, but it generally involves an attitude of superiority from someone who believes that clearly this is good art/music and I don't know what's wrong with you if you can't see that. You know what? I've been on the other side of that one sometimes. I realized it about myself and it made me sick. I just want it to stop, because being treated like that by others only makes it harder for me to avoid that behavior.

I'm sure you didn't mean to indicate there was something wrong with a person for not hearing what you were hearing... but I hope you can see how it came across. You couldn't have known ahead of time, which is fine, but now you know, so next time you'll be aware.

It was one phrase, used one time on The Phorum.  It's not like they turned into CMC over night or anything.

While we're on the subject of CMC, the attitudes of certain people who were supposed to be in charge and only contributed to the hostility at CMC were a big part of my reason for leaving. 'Nuff said.

I think you overreacted - and clearly you don't think so.

That's gonna turn into a big game of "He started it", so I'm willing to settle for both of us overreacting. That said, it sounds like any reaction at all other than ignoring it, in your mind, constitutes "overreacting".

Again - it was the first time the phrase had been used here.  Was it really that big of a deal to jump down someone's throat about? Really?

I didn't jump down your throat until you started to push the issue.

I can understand if it was being used all the time here, and there were repeated requests to not use it.  But give me a break David.  Why couldn't you just ignore it? (And I don't care about all your other times reading it across the internet.  We aren't talking about those instances - because they have no bearing on how you act HERE.)

It had specifically been discussed here the previous time that it was used. Any older usages have probably been archived by now. You weren't part of the conversation, so I don't expect you to know what went on before, but like I said, now you know.

Funny, because that's the attitude I feel like I'm getting from you. You're mistaking that attitude with what I'm actually saying: "You were wrong.  Why can't you admit it?"

Because I wasn't wrong to bring it up. As I've explained above, the way that I brought it up could have been more tactful.

If what comes out of this at the end is "When somebody gets on your nerves, don't bring it up", then we just create a culture where people are afraid to speak up for themselves, and their response to people whose beliefs/attitudes clash with them is just to leave. And you'll never know why they left. It's especially problematic when there's a "Do as I say, not as I do" attitude attached to it where you get to gripe as nastily as you want about people, and yet they're not allowed to bring up the slightest complaint about something you said.

For the record, despite what David may assume, I don't regularly use the phrase, and I don't plan on using it again any time soon.

Great! Looking forward to not hearing it.

I'm not even sure why I used it in the first place, so no, there's none of this "I'm gonna do whatever I want, so David can sit on it" type of attitude from me.

Moral of the story: Think about what things really mean before you say them. As a person who makes regular use of sarcasm and rhetorical questions, etc., this is something that I have to be careful about and that I have run afoul of several times without realizing what I was doing wrong. Colloquialisms and other forms of shorthand are fine when you know you're in a context where everyone gets the gist of it (for example, when you're among friends you interact with regularly), but otherwise, err on the side of caution. That's not me saying, "Thou shalt do this or face my wrath", it's just advice from someone who's learned it the hard way too many times.

[Vlad!]

Take it to PM. Any more off-topic posts in this thread will be deleted.

[murlough23]

Back on topic: I realize that it was kind of ass of me to ask, "What tracks do you guys like the most?", only to systematically go through and tear down each of them. My intent there wasn't to tell you guys that you shouldn't like them; I was just trying to focus my attention on tracks that hadn't jumped out at me initially and listen with those highlights in mind that you guys mentioned. I was just attempting to figure out what about those tracks wasn't quite doing it for me. I think I came across as stating, "Here's why it's just a bad song, period" rather than "Here's what I didn't like about it."

Sometimes when an album or individual songs aren't standing out to me, I look to others for fresh perspective.

[bloop]

I knew you were asking to systematically tear them down (well, I figured that would be the result anyway), so I didn't respond.