Moon

[Vlad!]

This thread is for discussing the film Moon, and will have spoilers. In fact, this very post will have spoilers. Major spoilers that give away pretty much every twist in the movie. See, I've already spoiled the fact that the movie has twists. You have been warned.

So my first issue with the film is that the hallucinations are never really explained or even referenced again. Near the beginning of the movie, Sam has at least three hallucinations. He sees a flashback of himself doing a log entry while he's doing a log entry, he sees a girl sitting in a chair, and he sees a girl standing in the dust as he's driving into the tritium collector, which is what caused his accident. My assertion is that the girl he sees in both cases is actually his daughter, Eve, as she exists in the present day.

My friends and I have the following interpretations of these events:
* Friend A believes that he's just going stir-crazy and hallucinating random crap. The girl he sees isn't actually his daughter but just some random girl.
* Friend B believes that it's a moral statement about how clones are bad (??)
* Friend C believes that it's trying to make the point about the subjectivity of time and that the clones are having memories of the original that they couldn't possibly otherwise have if time is really a continuum.
* I believe that it's an indication that the clones are linked in some way to the original, and thus as they begin to break down, their discrete personalities are sort of merging back with the original, causing the hallucinations. The flashback to himself (or possibly a different clone) doing the log entry might mean that he has memories from previous clones as well.

Obviously my friends are all retarded, but my own explanation is lacking plausibility as well. Some guidance from the movie itself would have been appreciated, especially since the hallucinations played such an important role in the early part of the movie and then were never referenced again.

Also not explained is why Tess was dead. Friend C thinks that she was complicit in this scheme all along and that she killed herself out of guilt. That certainly seems supported by the movie--after all, she's always weepy in her recorded messages. This doesn't bug me quite as much as the above, because there's enough evidence to construct plausible theories without resorting to "brain waves through space" or "cloning is bad mmkay".

Why do the clones break down after three years? Is it a flaw inherent in the cloning process? Or was it by design? It seems more likely to be the former, but it's never really stated.

This is kind of minor, but it's obvious that GERTIE does a lot of cleanup between the death of one clone and the awakening of another. For example, the smiley faces on the bathroom wall are erased, and the old personal effects are incinerated along with the body (because we saw that each clone has its own copies of Sam's effects). But GERTIE hasn't shown the ability to go everywhere in the base, such as the bathroom or even the tunnel below the base, so how would it be able to do these things? Also, what about the items (such as the orange sleeping bag, or the freaking lunar vehicle) that aren't included with each clone? There were obviously at least three lunar vehicles at the base, which seems a bit excessive. Are there maybe normally two vehicles and then a bunch of spares as well? They seem a bit too large for the support unit to bring a new one.

These are obviously minor annoyances in the face of what is otherwise an excellent film, but I like having things wrapped up! I realize that there's a fine line between explicitly explaining every detail and leaving things too vague. The only detail that I would really liked to have more explanation around is the hallucinations; the other stuff is just quibbling.

[chrisnu]

While I think that Tess was initially complicit with the program (it becomes obvious that she knows she's talking to clones in the video clips), I think she was killed because she had a conflict of conscience, and wanted to talk about what was going on. I'm not sure about the hallucinations, and I agree that it would have served the movie better to attempt an explanation.

[Vlad!]

While I think that Tess was initially complicit with the program (it becomes obvious that she knows she's talking to clones in the video clips), I think she was killed because she had a conflict of conscience, and wanted to talk about what was going on.

I don't really see any support in the film for her being killed by Lunar corporation. Besides, at the very end of the film it is implied that public sentiment is on the side of the people pulling the strings. And from what we know of Sam via his clones, I don't think he would be one to sit still and allow his genetic material to continue to be the stooges of those who killed his wife, so they would have to have killed her in such a way that it looked like an accident. That's a lot to read in to what the movie actually gives us.

[Aaron]

What is this movie about? I have not seen a preview for it on tv at all.  Is this getting a lot of internet buzz?

[spacebrat311]

So my first issue with the film is that the hallucinations are never really explained or even referenced again.

This is a confusing bit. For me it doesn't hurt the film, but I can see how it would. My interpretation was that it has something to do with the clones breaking down as well (it doesn't occur in the newer clone) but I don't think it's anything as strange as a link to the original. It didn't occur to me to interpret seeing himself recording a message as a hallucination, but instead as a computer malfunction that he wrote of as a hallucination, so the only mystery for me is the daughter hallucinations. This is a mystery I have no answer to, really.

Also not explained is why Tess was dead.

I didn't read anything sinister into it, and as such I didn't think that this was an important piece of information. I respected that they tried to make us feel as cut off from information as Sam by limiting our normal movie omniscience, where even if a character wouldn't plausibly find something out, the audience does just so we can feel satisfied. Maybe she was hit by a car, maybe she had cancer, could be any number of possible things that snatch us away at inopportune moments. I think the point is just that Sam loses his last connection to the life that he thought he had.

Why do the clones break down after three years? Is it a flaw inherent in the cloning process? Or was it by design? It seems more likely to be the former, but it's never really stated.

You're right that this was never really stated, but I rather liked the fog of information we receive since we are receiving information from Sam's perspective, and it feels more realistic to me that we would not find out everything than if Sam conveniently stumbled upon a complete explanation of his existence. I actually thought the latter seemed more plausible, as the longer they keep a single clone going, the higher his chances become of figuring out his clone status and or going bat-shit insane alone on the moon. If anything, I thought three years was a surprisingly long time to use a single clone in isolation. If the clones were a secret from the public as is implied to me by the ending, I also wonder if this was partially a stopgap measure to limit the ability of any escaped clones to reveal themselves to the public, although it seems unlikely that they would predict that the clones would find a means of escape.


Oh and your friends must be cool enough people and all since they're your friends, but their ideas about the movie are all totally nuts.

[spacebrat311]

What is this movie about? I have not seen a preview for it on tv at all.  Is this getting a lot of internet buzz?

I think as little as you know going in the better. It's getting amazing reviews though. Limited release.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twuScTcDP_Q

[Vlad!]

This is a confusing bit. For me it doesn't hurt the film, but I can see how it would. My interpretation was that it has something to do with the clones breaking down as well (it doesn't occur in the newer clone) but I don't think it's anything as strange as a link to the original. It didn't occur to me to interpret seeing himself recording a message as a hallucination, but instead as a computer malfunction that he wrote of as a hallucination, so the only mystery for me is the daughter hallucinations. This is a mystery I have no answer to, really.

I have been toying with the theory that the previous recording wasn't him recording at all but actually a previous clone recording.

You're right that this was never really stated, but I rather liked the fog of information we receive since we are receiving information from Sam's perspective, and it feels more realistic to me that we would not find out everything than if Sam conveniently stumbled upon a complete explanation of his existence. I actually thought the latter seemed more plausible, as the longer they keep a single clone going, the higher his chances become of figuring out his clone status and or going bat-shit insane alone on the moon. If anything, I thought three years was a surprisingly long time to use a single clone in isolation. If the clones were a secret from the public as is implied to me by the ending, I also wonder if this was partially a stopgap measure to limit the ability of any escaped clones to reveal themselves to the public, although it seems unlikely that they would predict that the clones would find a means of escape.

Presumably the "original" Sam lasted three years (one of my friends suggested that the original Sam never actually went up but was just cloned, which might throw a monkey wrench in that idea). But why would the clones deteriorate after three years? They're killed in the incineration chamber anyway, so it would make more sense for Lunar corporation to have them operating at peak efficiency until their "return". This is why I suspect that the deterioration is supposed to be an indication that the cloning process is imperfect, not a time bomb set up by Lunar.

Oh and your friends must be cool enough people and all since they're your friends, but their ideas about the movie are all totally nuts.

Well, in their defense I proposed my theory, which though I'm biased I think is the most plausible of the four, first, and all the other theories were attempts at unseating it (and I may not be characterizing their arguments correctly, because we were all sort of talking at once, as is our wont). One part of me doesn't like the ambiguity, while another part thinks it's cool that we're left to form our own interpretations of the events.

[spacebrat311]

I have been toying with the theory that the previous recording wasn't him recording at all but actually a previous clone recording.

That's what I meant by computer malfunction. The angle looks like the computer log recordings he watches later.

[spacebrat311]

But why would the clones deteriorate after three years? They're killed in the incineration chamber anyway, so it would make more sense for Lunar corporation to have them operating at peak efficiency until their "return".

Safeguard. The incinerator only functions to protect against the ever-increasing likelihood of a clone discovering their nature over time if the clone has already not discovered this, begun to question himself. The three year lifespan means that even if the worst occurs, Sam can only get so far and do so much. Even if he suspects that the incinerator is a trap, he still won't be around for the next one to discover.

[Vlad!]

I guess that seems reasonable.

[Simon]

I think it makes sense that the real Sam would be living with his family while having himself cloned for profit by Lunar. The time of three years makes sense for a contract agreement and the contract agreement is a necessary illusion to get the cooperation of the clones. The deterioration seems most likely a failsafe (like in Blade Runner).

[Vlad!]

I think it makes sense that the real Sam would be living with his family while having himself cloned for profit by Lunar. The time of three years makes sense for a contract agreement and the contract agreement is a necessary illusion to get the cooperation of the clones. The deterioration seems most likely a failsafe (like in Blade Runner).

But come on...they're tricking the clones into killing themselves, so why would they need them to deteriorate? It loses them money...we see that Sam crashes his Lunar buggy because he's falling apart at the seams, which costs the corporation a lot of dough. Assuming each deteriorating clone pulls a slip-up of that approximate magnitude, doesn't it seem like it would be more efficient for them to just use real non-cloned people?

[Brenden]

I think that might cause one to argue that the clones hadn't caused such an accident beforehand, and given the timeline of the movie if the original Sam went up, there looks to have only been a few clones prior anyway.

[Vlad!]

I think that might cause one to argue that the clones hadn't caused such an accident beforehand, and given the timeline of the movie if the original Sam went up, there looks to have only been a few clones prior anyway.

We saw several clones getting into the incineration chamber; I don't recall exactly how many, but we can extrapolate that there have been five or six Sam clones (depending on your view of the timeline, Eve was born while either Sam Prime or Sam Clone 0 was on the station, and so if she's fifteen (or sixteen, apparently my memory is going in my old age) then either they're on the fifth clone (all five Sam clones plus Sam Prime) or they're on the sixth one (six Sam clones while Sam Prime chills out down on Earth)). We can assume that this is the first time that a Sam clone has died before his term was up, but all the clones showed the same sort of breakdown symptoms as they were climbing into the incinerator.

[Brenden]

Which doesn't mean all the clones crashed into the rovers, just that they were breaking down, unless we assume all the events unfolded the same way and each clone acts in the same way, which they likely don't if this was the first time two clones had met. Thus, it is feasible to assume that no prior clone had caused major damage to the station.

[Vlad!]

Which doesn't mean all the clones crashed into the rovers, just that they were breaking down, unless we assume all the events unfolded the same way and each clone acts in the same way, which they likely don't if this was the first time two clones had met. Thus, it is feasible to assume that no prior clone had caused major damage to the station.

Right, but if they designed a breakdown into the clone process then they had to know it would be likely, if not inevitable, that such major damage would happen.

[Brenden]

They had to have known it was possible, yes, but they probably still saw it as worth the risk. I'd imagine if they thought that sort of damage would be a regular occurance or would probably happen, then they wouldn't invest so much in the project, given how many clones were made.

[Vlad!]

Or that they'd design the breakdown to happen after the three-year period were up.

[Simon]

Yeah if I were running an evil corporation, I would definitely make them break down two weeks after they were to be incinerated rather than two weeks before, but hey, maybe its not that simple or exact.