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Author Topic: The Final Fantasy Retrospective!  (Read 2131 times)
bloop
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« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2010, 07:55:03 AM »

I don't dislike VII at all.  It's a good game, and I'm probably bothered less than you are about the latter generation games' angstiness, I was genuinely moved by Aeris's sacrifice, etc.  I just think it's a little high in people's pantheons because it's just flashier than what came before.  At the very least, VI is better, and I think I'd agree with you that IV and V are, too.

I'll just have to agree to disagree on X vs. VII.  Maybe I just really like the goth chick whose name eludes me.  I also fondly remember its minigame (blitzball).  Oh, and the Magus Sisters summon cracks me up.  *SPOILER* It was sort of interesting that you had to end it all by destroying your summons.  

I got a little ahead of myself, though.  I think the best Sony FF (that I've played) is likely XII, in terms of gameplay.

If you end up hating on X-2, though, I can agree with that.  Girl power!
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 08:18:30 AM by bloop » Logged

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« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2010, 08:14:48 AM »

Her name was Lulu, and except the fact that Nomura decided to compose her dress entirely out of belts and kit her up like a hooker, I liked her character a lot. That is, until she hooked up with Wakka and got preggers.

And Blitzball is just underwater rugby, which I thought was stupid. I only played it the one time the game made me. I'm glad at least someone thought it was worthwhile, though.

(I thought the plot around the ending was actually pretty neat, but it was way too overdone IMO. Still, the important thing about games is that you enjoy them, so if you enjoyed it then that's always a good thing.)
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« Reply #42 on: May 31, 2010, 08:24:57 AM »

Yeah, Wakka and Lulu.  They do seem like an odd pair.

And Blitzball is just underwater rugby, which I thought was stupid. I only played it the one time the game made me. I'm glad at least someone thought it was worthwhile, though.

Well, I was pretty obsessive about getting all the legendary weapons, too, and I think Wakka's required you to play Blitzball quite a bit.  I remember Kimahri's being a more of a pain.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 08:28:53 AM by bloop » Logged

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« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2010, 05:37:20 PM »

There have been many Final Fantasy titles which experimented in several different ways, but one steadfast  rule was "no direct sequels". I think part of this is because Square wanted their flagship series to remain  innovative and different even as it racked up installments and part is because the games' endings don't necessarily lend themselves to a continuing storyline. However, for whatever reason[1] Square decided to create a sequel to Final Fantasy X entitled, imaginatively enough, Final Fantasy X-2.

As befits a sequel, X-2's setting--the world of Spira--is mostly the same, though the it does show some changes as a result of the events in FFX. The game follows the adventures of two returning characters plus a new sidekick. And to give the game credit, even though it uses the same engine its new battle system and other miscellaneous improvements help keep it from feeling "been there, done that".

Instead of its predecessor's set job system with jobs distributed among several characters, X-2 relies on its dynamic job system with the same three party members (you may remember that FFV took much the same approach). But though the job system is one of the most prominent changes to game mechanics, the change in tone is really what defines X-2 in my mind.

Part of what made X so ridiculous is that it tried in most places to give  a sense of gravitas, but it undermined its own efforts so often I couldn't help but gape at its ham-handedness. I guess Square decided to embrace this, because X-2 makes no effort to appear serious, instead opting to amplify the ludicrous aspects of X and add more on besides.

It's easy to compare X-2 to V, both in the aforementioned attitude toward characterization and also in the sense that the game is laughable but still technically excellent. However, in V the story takes a back seat and serves as a vehicle for driving the player along when necessary, but in X-2 the story gets in the way of the game far too often. This appears to be an industry trend...even among games with mediocre plotlines and poor characterization it seems that annoyingly frequent cutscenes which last several minutes each are de rigueur.

Also, in stark contrast to FFV and continuing the trend from FFX, exploration really takes a back seat in X-2. In fact, the game has no world map to speak of, merely a menu screen where you can select which place you want to go. Even better, the places which house plot events are glowing. I assumed that the game would allow me to explore on my own at some point, so I blazed through the first two chapters before realizing that Final Fantasy X-2's idea of exploration was selecting one of the non-glowing areas and running around until you'd "explored" all of it. Maybe to modern gamers with MTV-driven attention spans this counts as exploration, but for someone who scoured the entire ocean floor in FFV's submarine looking for hidden caves and bonus dungeons, it doesn't exactly cut it.

I would be remiss, however, if I didn't mention the battle system. FFX-2 is the first Final Fantasy which allows characters to change jobs in mid battle (that this change happens by way of a Magical Girl Transformation Sequence serves to illustrate the point about X-2's close relationship to the ridiculous). In fact, X-2 completely replaces the stolid turn-based system of X with a frantic active-time mêlée which is honestly one of the best implementations of the active-time battle system this side of Grandia.

As a final note, I was also pretty disappointed with X-2's music. As far as I know, this is the first mainline Final Fantasy for which music guru Nobuo Uematsu was not involved, and it shows. From the bubblegum-pop opening cutscene to the weird and uninspiring battle music, X-2 took a big step backward in this area.

If Square considered X-2 an experiment then I guess in their mind it succeeded, because they have gone on to create about fifty sequels and prequels set in the FFVII universe, a sequel to FFIV released solely on cell phones, and even a DS-based real-time strategy sequel to FFXII. Financially successful or not, however, as a game I consider X-2 to be a disappointment. Perhaps if I were able to dissociate it from the name "Final Fantasy" I would regard it more kindly, but consider the heights from which the series has fallen.

Next week: not Final Fantasy XI.

[1] I've read several theories on why they decided to go with a direct sequel. Some suggest that it came from a need to recoup their losses from their disastrous movie project The Spirits Within. Others surmise that Square wanted to bolster the company's stock price going into the merger with Enix just a month after the Japanese release. Personally I think it's just the case that they put a lot of time and energy into developing the game engine for Final Fantasy X and didn't want to let it go to waste.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2010, 03:24:36 PM by Vlad! » Logged

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« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2010, 09:55:34 PM »

I'm going to talk about Final Fantasy XII...which, if you're playing along at home, may make you say "wait, didn't we skip a number?"

After so many companies proved how profitable massively multiplayer online games can be, SquareEnix decided to get into that market. Furthermore, they decided to enter with their main series by releasing Final Fantasy XI as an online game. I don't like online games, especially MMORPGs, so I never played it. However, I mention it here because I feel like understanding XI is key to understanding XII.

So, SquareEnix finally found a goose to lay some golden eggs. When you have software which requires users to pay a monthly fee to use, selling standard retail software must almost seem like a chump's game. Why have your developers spend time making a single-player FFXII when they could instead be writing new modules and expansions for FFXI?

I don't really know all the reasons, but one certainly is that while a company's standard game output is limited only by their development resources, the market will only bear so many online games. If you have several development teams at your disposal, it makes sense to have some of them developing the standard release-and-forget style product. And maybe this is just my bias talking, but once an online game reaches the end of its life, nobody really cares about it anymore. In fifteen years will people talk about Final Fantasy XI the way I talk about Final Fantasy VI? Does the concept of a re-release even make sense? Even if online games are the new cash cows, for the moment it's still the offline games which provide the classics and the legacy.

So, Final Fantasy XII. Interestingly, and I alluded to this earlier when talking about FF Tactics, XII returns the series to the land of Ivalice. You may not be surprised, then to find out that instead of the departed Sakaguchi leading the project, Quest alums Yasumi Matsuno and Hiroshi Minagawa spearheaded the effort. Indeed, the only series veteran involved in the project was longtime Square developer Hiroyuki Itoh--even the redoubtable Nobuo Uematsu had left to pursue freelance work by this point.

And what did this eclectic crew deliver? Well, this is where the background information about XI comes in, because they created what is essentially a single-player MMORPG.

This seems like a contradiction, but ultimately that's what the game feels like. Behavioral and cognitive scientists have known for a while that the structure of MMO games exploits the way our brains work to trigger action/reward systems, and XII carries that same structure. Battles occur on the world map, much of the adventure actually happens through the quest system, and the focus is much more on epic battles against large monsters for great rewards.

Another weird part about XII is its equipment system. X had the sphere grid, which required characters to get points and advance on a grid system to learn skills and gain stat boosts. XII turns this on its head by giving characters a similar grid but then tying it to equipment rather than stats.

This is certainly an interesting system, but it leads to wonkiness like "I found this shirt but I don't have enough points to actually wear it" (Scott Ramsoomair lampoons this much more eloquently than I can in comic form). I understand why it's there: yet another step on the path to letting characters retain their individuality while still being customizable. I can appreciate the sentiment, but I am nonetheless unimpressed with the result.

The other controversial change is the gambit system. Essentially, it's a way to control your characters without actually controlling them--though direct control is possible, in large real-time battles it's always nice to have a way to make the character you're not directly controlling still do approximately what you want. This system is, in my opinion, again designed to make up for the fact that FFXII is an offline online game. Since you don't have live, thinking party members, you have to program your characters to do what you want.

I thought the gambit system was pretty OK, but in the end SquareEnix get zero points for coming up with a decent solution to a problem they themselves created.

There's a lot more I could say about FFXII, but I feel like I've covered the basics. Ultimately, the fun 30-hour game is buried in another 30 hours of MMO-like grinding. I don't object just because the game asks players to repeatedly do relatively mindless tasks for relatively miniscule rewards--especially because I don't have to pay every month for the privilege--but this isn't the sort of game I get excited about.

The reason many old-school series fans (including me) mock later installments even as we recognize that individually they are not necessarily bad games is that each one represents a step away from a series of games we like and toward a series of games that some other demographic likes. For me, at some point along the way the Final Fantasy games stopped being, well, Final Fantasy. And though I can write words about the characters and the plot and the world and the various systems which compose the game as a whole, those words will just be dancing around the fact that this isn't my game and this series is no longer my series. To those whose series it has become and whose games these now are, I am happy for you. But it's not mine.

Next week: brief words about some of the games I didn't cover, some closing thoughts, some statistics for nerds like me, and maybe some other stuff. I dunno! I haven't written it yet.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 03:30:02 PM by Vlad! » Logged

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« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2010, 03:25:32 PM »

So, bloop, I'm curious: you said that you'd agree with me if I ended up hating X-2. Did you find my dislike of X-2 to jive with yours, or do you dislike it for a different reason?

(Also, the FFXII retrospective is not at the level of quality I prefer. My air conditioner died yesterday and I spent the time I would have spent on editing trying to get it restarted and, when that failed, trying to cool down my house. Once I have time I'll try to go back and clean it up some. Sorry if it's a little rambly or wonky in places.)
« Last Edit: June 14, 2010, 03:29:13 PM by Vlad! » Logged

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« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2010, 05:06:20 PM »

Yeah, I'm with you on the vast majority of the FFX-2 review.  I'm pretty sure I liked XII much, much more than you, though, particularly the battle system.  I was so happy to not see a wipe or breaking glass -> battle, which makes battles feel like an interruption, or our characters neatly aligned on one side with the enemies neatly aligned on the other.  

On the other hand, I didn't get so sidetracked in the hunting mini-quests (which can get tedious to say the least), and it sounds like you did.

Do you plan on covering XIII sometime?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2010, 05:09:45 PM by bloop » Logged

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« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2010, 05:41:29 PM »

On the other hand, I didn't get so sidetracked in the hunting mini-quests (which can get tedious to say the least), and it sounds like you did.
I actually finished most of the hunts in the game. I put a lot of hours on FF XII and I liked it a lot while I was playing it (addictive behavior for the win), but looking back on it, I'm just not really sure it was worth the time I put into it. I think the time on my final save was 86 hours, which is a lot of time to spend on a game.

Do you plan on covering XIII sometime?
I haven't even started XIII yet, and probably won't for a while. When I play it I will provide my usual blurbs in the Video Game thread and a review afterward. This thread is mostly intended to be a retrospective, and I don't know how much time it will take for the game to really percolate. I'm the type of person who takes a while to get over the initial THIS WAS THE BEST GAME/MOVIE/BOOK/SONG EVER before I can really get my head around it.

However, when I feel like I have sufficient insight on the game to be able to say something useful about it, I will say it in this thread.
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« Reply #48 on: June 20, 2010, 02:54:42 PM »

I hope you've enjoyed reading my ramblings and reminiscences as much as I've enjoyed writing them. This post is dedicated mostly to the games which didn't make the list of games to be reviewed in-depth. I'm sure I will occasionally post FF-related thoughts here, and all others are welcome to do so as well.

Looking back, it's amazing to see how much the series has changed since its beginnings. Over the more than two decades of its history, Final Fantasy has become a juggernaut--one of the most influential game series in history. In fact, there have been far more Final Fantasy games than I talked about here...much like Nintendo, Square feels little shame in milking their flagship brand for all it's worth. By this point, not only have there been offshoots from the franchise trunk, these buds have grown to become whole branches unto themselves. Here's a short rundown of what I skipped.

The first offshoot to become something more than just a one-off would be, I believe, the Crystal Chronicles games. Debuting on the Gamecube in the early 2000s, the Crystal Chronicles games differentiated themselves by being more action-oriented and also designed to work well as a multiplayer experience. Crystal Chronicles seemed like a one-off up until recently, when a couple of games came out for the DS and a couple more for the Wii. I've only played one of these games--Ring of Fates, for the DS--and I didn't play it for very long before I got sick of it. I'm honestly not sure why Square released these titles as part of the Final Fantasy franchise as opposed to taking the Seiken Densetsu name, because they're much more similar in gameplay to those games (Seiken Densetsu, as you may recall, is the series that Secret of Mana belongs to).

The second group of games (and other media) is the continuing corpus of work exploring the Final Fantasy VII world. I played Dirge of Cerberus (first impression, mini-review) and thought it was an OK venture into the third person hack'n'slasher genre, but other than that I haven't really toyed around with any of the other stuff Square's released for that setting.

I've already talked about the Ivalice Alliance games a bit; they're mostly strategy-type games, and despite my love for that genre I haven't really managed to get into any of the FFT titles after the first one.

One incongruous little twig sticking off the main trunk are the Final Fantasy Fables games, which are two (thus far) games starring a young Chocobo. They seem to be aimed at little kids (though I, um, kind of actually enjoyed Chocobo Tales when I played it back in 2007). I don't know if Squeenix plan on doing anything more with this one, though I wouldn't be surprised to see a FF Fables Wiiware title come out.

One game that I'm kind of excited about is Final Fantasy: The Four Heroes of Light, which came out last year in Japan and should release this Fall in the US. It's billed as a return to the series' roots, and it appears from the marketing materials that the game's target audience is fans who feel the frustration I described in my reviews of the later games: that the series has gradually lost touch with what made it so epic in the first place. What specifically makes me excited about this game is that Matrix Software developed it. As you may recall, Matrix programmed the remakes for FFIII and IV which I enjoyed so very much, along with the game Nostalgia, which was one of my favorite original games to come out last year.

I've said many times in my reviews that I appreciate Square's dedication to changing the formula; I'm sure the temptation to create the same basic game for twelve installments was great, and I like it that they changed it up each go-round. But at the same time, I feel like these days they're catering to the lowest common denominator and that their later games really don't have the same heart and spirit that the earlier ones did.

I dunno. Maybe the series has changed, and I just missed the boat. Maybe I'm just caught up in nostalgia, and the later ones are just as good as my old favorites. But though I make fun of Squeenix for coming out with so many remakes and spin-offs, I'm actually kind of glad they're doing so. No matter which weird way they go with their main series, I can still be sure that occasionally, when the stars line up just right, there will be something coming out with a Square Enix logo on it that manages to capture at least a little bit of the magic that the name Final Fantasy still holds in my heart. Here's to another twenty years of this, the most final of fantasies.
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« Reply #49 on: June 20, 2010, 03:05:35 PM »

Also, I promised some stats. Here you go:



The only correlation between word count and how much I like the game is in VI; other than that, no correlation.
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« Reply #50 on: June 24, 2010, 02:34:45 PM »

FF-related news:

http://www.siliconera.com/2010/06/24/i-asked-shinji-hashimoto-about-final-fantasy-v-and-vi-on-ds-and-3ds/

I remember seeing the news about Hashimoto's Twitter post when it came out, but I think I immediately went into denial and pretended I hadn't read it.

If the 3DS gets FFV and FFVI I believe I will have no choice but to buy one.
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
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