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Josh
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« on: July 03, 2003, 07:31:49 PM » |
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For those of you who haven't read Flannery O'Connor's wonderful short story, "A Good Man is Hard to Find," I just stumbled across what appears to be the full text, available here. It's one of the most intriguing stories you'll ever read, so give it a try. And then perhaps we can discuss the story and what it means. |
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beautifulmess
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« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2003, 01:05:29 PM » |
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I enjoyed the story. I thought it was well-written and it certainly was intriguing. I'm interested in reading more from O'Connor.
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My Journal*My Poetry\"The quiche made me look fat.\" --Kirk, from Gilmore Girls when Lorelai asked why he was in a hot dog suit
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Vlad!
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« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2003, 12:36:20 AM » |
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Certainly a strange one, and I know I'm not up to figuring it out tonight. It should make for an interesting discussion, though...
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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Josh
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« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2003, 08:21:09 AM » |
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I'll read it again on my trip and then come back with some good discussion questions and points.
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BigBird
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« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2003, 10:36:21 AM » |
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I've always thought that the story would make for an interesting short film. But where shall I find an annoying grandmother to play the part?
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DvChWi
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« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2003, 01:19:45 PM » |
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I must honestly say that I have no idea what that story means, or is trying to say, or anything. Has everyone read it so we can discuss it freely without worrying about spoiling it for others?
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Fun facts about Chuck Norris:
Newton's Third Law is wrong: Although it states that for each action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, there is no force equal in reaction to a Chuck Norris roundhouse kick.
Chuck Norris can divide by zero.
Chuck Norris CAN believe it's not butter.
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Vlad!
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« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2003, 07:49:19 PM » |
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:!: I will just issue a warning that beyond this point, the story is discussed in detail without regard to concealing potentially spoiling elements. It only takes about 15 minutes to read, and though I don't really understand the story I'm sure the discussion we get out of it will be worth it :!:
I'm going to read it again before I go to bed and try to think of some good questions to kick us off, but if you guys already have some good ones, feel free to let 'em rip!
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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enemy anemone
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« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2003, 10:35:29 PM » |
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I tried reading it but I don't get it. at all.
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beautifulmess
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« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2003, 10:56:01 PM » |
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I'm not sure I do, either. But I still found it an enjoyable read.
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My Journal*My Poetry\"The quiche made me look fat.\" --Kirk, from Gilmore Girls when Lorelai asked why he was in a hot dog suit
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Vlad!
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« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2003, 05:04:24 PM » |
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I tried reading it but I don't get it. at all. I forget who it was who said it, but someone said that just because you don't understand something doesn't make it great, it just makes it hard to understand. After reading through it a second time, I'm starting to wonder if it's a subtle commentary on society or just incomprehensible writing...I'm hoping the former, but beginning to suspect the latter.. |
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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DvChWi
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« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2003, 05:50:33 PM » |
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« Last Edit: July 06, 2003, 06:00:27 PM by DvChWi »
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Fun facts about Chuck Norris:
Newton's Third Law is wrong: Although it states that for each action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, there is no force equal in reaction to a Chuck Norris roundhouse kick.
Chuck Norris can divide by zero.
Chuck Norris CAN believe it's not butter.
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rebel546
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« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2003, 07:01:23 PM » |
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I think it's at least a good look at reality and morals, or the lack there of... sort of a little bit of what Donnie Darko does...
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Vlad!
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« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2003, 08:50:37 PM » |
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Yeah, except I loved Donnie Darko  I actually don't think it's that bad a story, but it leaves you feeling a bit empty after it's over. I have enough respect for the author that I'm willing to admit that's probably intentional, but it's like one of those super long jokes with the really crappy punchline where the real joke is that you wasted so much time listening to it that the non-joke at the end is just irony. |
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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DvChWi
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« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2003, 09:43:06 PM » |
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Sometimes I feel like some short story authors think that if they kill off a good number of characters, the story becomes great literature. I'm not sure if this is the case in this situation, but I would have enjoyed the story a lot more if the Misfit had somehow become saved or something, preferably before he had the family killed. The ending as-is is a little abrupt, I think. But, to kick off with some questions.....
1. What was up with Grandma during her "showdown" with the Misfit? What was she doing and thinking? Everything she did and said during this part confused me.
2. Did the Misfit seem in any way changed my the events? I say no.
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Logged
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Fun facts about Chuck Norris:
Newton's Third Law is wrong: Although it states that for each action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, there is no force equal in reaction to a Chuck Norris roundhouse kick.
Chuck Norris can divide by zero.
Chuck Norris CAN believe it's not butter.
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Vlad!
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« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2003, 10:46:57 AM » |
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I think the grandmother was trying to save herself the best way she knew how. The events that were occurring were so far beyond normal human experience that she especially seemed to find it rather surreal. As a result, she resorted to an attempt to bring out any possible latent civility in the Misfit in the hopes that it would save her life. That's how I read it...
I don't think the Misfit was changed in any way.
Here's a couple questions of my own (though others should answer DvChWi's great questions too ^_^):
1. What was the point of the comment at the end that the grandmother would have been a good woman if someone had been constantly threatening her life? Did it relate to the rest of the story, or was it just an extra little moral tacked on at the end?
2. None of the characters really seem to resist in any real way (except, as mentined above, the grandmother tries to talk her way out of it). Why did they pretty much let themselves get slaughtered?
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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Josh
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« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2003, 07:04:08 PM » |
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The important line here is when the Misfit is killing off the family and the grandmother says something like, "You're one of my children." She realizes- finally!- that she is no better than this man. She's no less sinful. That's the point of the book; grace comes to both the good and the bad, because, really, everyone is bad. A good man is hard to find because good men simply don't exist, at least not men who are good enough to save themselves.
And speaking of grace coming down to us, the one character here who seems to receive grace in a specific way is the grandmother. And it isn't an easy lesson; it takes the Misfit killing her family for her to learn that she's not as good as she once thought she was. There are a few second there before her death when she realizes this, and she has a few seconds to change.
A sobering story, but a great one!
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