HM's Top 100 Christian Rock Albums

[bloop]

Thought a discussion of this list may be interesting, while we're discussing lists:

http://www.hmmagazine.com/2010/07/top-100-christian-rock-albums-of-all-time/

1.  It's nice to see Jesus Freak NOT at the top spot.
2.  I've just gotten into The Prayer Chain, but Mercury >>>> Shawl, and nearly everything on this list, tbh. At least it aspires at something.
3.  Illinois should be much, much higher. #80 is just incorrect. Iona is way too low as well.
4.  For the mwY pick, I probably would have gone with it's all crazy!.... Good pick, though.
5.  Boo on the predictable, inferior Jars pick. It's infuriating in the same way that people who think Radiohead stopped making music with "Creep" are.
6.  On the positive side, most of the choices here that I know are rather good.

[ewok20t3]

-I don't like them having P.O.D. and Stryper so high, and Creed on there, as well. It seems as if they based alot of their selections on popularity.
-I do like that they had Stavesacre and meeithoutYou in the top 10. I prefer Brother, Sister to It's All Crazy!..., but only slightly.
-Zao's album should've been top 10. It's a very influential metalcore album.
-Living Sacrifice are way too low.
-The Moon Is Down by Further Seems Forever and The Everglow by Mae should've been there somewhere.
-I like HM Magazine and what it stands for and tries to accomplish. I have quite a few HM Magazines, but they seem stuck in the christian bubble as far as knowing what's groundbreaking and cutting edge in modern music, which is why Sufjan is so low. That said, this list really could've been a whole lot worse, and the editor, Doug Van Pelt, is definitely very knowledgeable about the early days of christian rock. Maybe he tried to make a list that combined groundbreaking and downright, good albums, with popular albums and albums that put christian rock in the spotlight, if that was his purpose I think he did a good job. It just makes for a somewhat head-scratcher of a list, as far as I'm concerned. I mean, he had Creed ahead of Sufjan Stevens, for goodness sake! OK, I'll stop there.

[NinjaRob17]

This list is equal parts good picks and head-scratchers.

Good picks:
Seventy Sevens (Though I personally enjoy Eighty Eight more, it is just a live album)
Brother, Sister (I personally believe this is a superior album to It's All Crazy...actually, I think Catch For Us the Foxes is better than It's All Crazy..., too)
The Beautiful Letdown (Shouldn't be so high IMO, but still a decent pick)
MUTEMATH (I would enjoy the Warner Bros release more if it ended on "Stall Out", but it's still better than the independent release, since they took out the worst songs from the LP and put in the best songs from the EP)
Doppelganger
Life in General
Delusions of Grandeur (I listened to this a lot as a kid, it holds up really well)
Fathom
Vheissu
Aunt Bettys
Building a Better Me
Maylene and the Sons of Disaster (I personally prefer II, but whatever)
Jesus Freak (Mostly for nostalgia's sake)
Cities
Leave Here A Stranger (Best choice for a SF59 album, shame it's so low)
The Hammering Process (Glad they chose this over Reborn)
Illinoise (Why is it this far down?)
Exodus
Drawing Black Lines
I Predict 1990 (I think I prefer this to Squint. Maybe.)

Head-scratchers:
Satellite (I kind of understand why it's on here, but mostly when I hear people talking about P.O.D. it consists of "Oh yeah, remember them? Haha")
Human Clay (Ugh, why? "Lotsa people hate on Creed". Yeah, I'm one of them.)
Summer of Darkness (If you must have a Demon Hunter album on here, there are better)
Ocean Eyes ("Hey, let's pick an influential Christian electronic musician to be on this list" "OWL CITY!" "Well, there's this Ronnie Martin guy...." "OWL CITY!")
Flyleaf
They're Only Chasing Safety (I'm starting to think they should have renamed this "The top 100 most mainstream Christian rock albums of all time". Also, any Underoath albums, excluding the first two, are better than this one)
'Til We See the Shore (Guarantee people won't remember this even exists in a couple years)
Jars of Clay (Much Afraid is Much Better)
Age of Reptiles (Choosing this over No Sir, Nihilism Is Not Practical is, well, a head-scratcher)
Dance Or Die (The remix album is better than the album itself. Goes to show how bad the original product is.)
Comatose (Collide is where they stopped being "pretty good for Christian rock" and turned into "pretty good for mainstream rock". Comatose turned them into "just another mainstream rock band")
Supertones Strike Back (This wouldn't make me scratch my head if they put a Five Iron Frenzy album on the list. Specifically, Our Newest Album Ever!)
TwoSeventeen (It's kind of fun, for rap-rock. But it's still rap-rock.)

[murlough23]

I won't gripe about Iona's placement. Hell, I'm just glad Iona's on there at all. They certainly picked the band's best album (though Open Sky is equally deserving).

Jesus Freak is solid; my personal preference is Supernatural, but I can't deny that JF had the greater impact.

Similar thing about the first Jars of Clay. I don't believe it's their best, but I think it had a far greater influence on Christian music than any of their other albums. I agree that Much Afraid is their best, but I love it for deeply personal reasons (and because I'm turned on by odd musical choices that some others may find depressing). Even something like Good Monsters, I'd say that got a ton of recognition and is worthy of the list both on a personal and more objective scale. But when I think of Jars albums where the key songs have hit far and wide, I have to admit the first album is king there. It has some of the best songs, while lacking the most in the production department, plus you have some middling songs that are well-written, but didn't take hold like Flood" or "Worlds Apart" did. Albums on this list seem mostly recommended for specific songs that were huge, so it sorta makes sense.

Good on them for picking Cities above other Anberlin albums. It's my favorite, too. Didn't know it was that big, as a lot of folks seem convinced it's their least "catchy" album.

Family Force 5??? No. Just - NO.  

Evanescence? I like 'em, but when a band has vehemently denied that their music is "Christian", they shouldn't be on this list, given that it would piss them off to be on it. (MuteMath is a somewhat less volatile case of this - they didn't object to the association with Christianity so much as the ghetto marketing plans.)

Creed? I still enjoy the songs I loved back in the day, but Human Clay is a tedious listen all the way through due to how the tempo rarely seems to change. I think that album is remembered as one of the first where there were no specific ties to Christian music, but it was clearly coming from a Christian POV and a lot of Christians found their mainstream acceptance exciting. (U2 is a much better, earlier example, but I think you could find some of their stuff in Christian bookstores back in the day, while I don't think this was ever the case for Creed.) Incidentally, Alter Bridge >>> Creed. I wouldn't consider AB "Christian Rock" by any stretch, though I actually find a lot of their songs quite uplifting all the same.

Skillet's Comatose? It's good for sounding mainstream or something? That was when the band started to lose their originality for me. I liked 'em when they weren't afraid to be freaks - some folks really hated 'em and the songwriting always needed help, but Collide was much better since it just aimed for the extremes and didn't care. Not even sure if Collide deserves a spot on this list, though I did have it in my personal Top 100 for the 00's.

Five Iron Frenzy should be on this list WAAAYYYY before The Supertones. The Supertones were fun, but a lot of their lyrics were didactic or just downright stupid. FIF tried to do something intelligent with ska, when they weren't doing a piss take on some other genre for giggles or outright screwing around. The screwing around was part of the charm.

I like Owl City, but this is a list for ROCK albums.

Yeah, Illinois deserves to be way higher. For me, that was the defining moment that proved Christians making music in the indie world, not just for Christians, not shunning mentions of their faith either, could get their art recognized as viable and even influential. It probably wasn't on the "Christian music radar" as much as some of the bigger-name rock acts (and again, it's not really a rock album to begin with).

Pax217: You've gotta be kidding me. I liked 'em, but the album Twoseventeen was really hit and miss. I was really big on Engage at the time, and it's still fun - definitely a more solid album. Still not top-tier influential on either album, though.

Overall: This definitely stretches the definition of "Christian rock" quite a bit, but I like that they tried to think outside of the box, and dug deep to give nods to some classic bands that I may not have heard much from personally, but that were influencing Christian music long before I knew squat about it.

[bloop]

Jesus Freak is solid; my personal preference is Supernatural, but I can't deny that JF had the greater impact.

Yeah, I can sort of see that. I'm just glad they didn't put it in the top 10 because it just isn't that good, artistically-speaking. Overrated album in Christian circles, IMO, as it isn't even really that important either.

Creed? I still enjoy the songs I loved back in the day, but Human Clay is a tedious listen all the way through due to how the tempo rarely seems to change. I think that album is remembered as one of the first where there were no specific ties to Christian music, but it was clearly coming from a Christian POV and a lot of Christians found their mainstream acceptance exciting.

Needless to say, I'm with the haters on this one. I was just thinking "let's leave off the butt-rock, mkay?"

Yeah, Illinois deserves to be way higher. For me, that was the defining moment that proved Christians making music in the indie world, not just for Christians, not shunning mentions of their faith either, could get their art recognized as viable and even influential. It probably wasn't on the "Christian music radar" as much as some of the bigger-name rock acts (and again, it's not really a rock album to begin with).

Yeah, #1 or thereabouts sounds about right to me.   

The drop from #1 to #2 on this list is just dramatic, going from a stone-cold classic to, you know, a pretty good P.O.D. album. A reorder may have fixed this to a large degree (without my preference for changing their picks).

Where's my Bob Dylan Christian period?! (OK, they don't really need to go there, either. Slow Train Coming is really quite good, though)

[ewok20t3]

Good on them for picking Cities above other Anberlin albums. It's my favorite, too. Didn't know it was that big, as a lot of folks seem convinced it's their least "catchy" album.

They almost didn't pick Cities. Doug Van Pelt asked on his Twitter if he should put New Surrender or Never Take Friendship Personal on the list as Anberlin's album. Me and many others responded that Cities is Anberlin's best album. I'm glad he took our advice. 

[murlough23]

Yeah, I can sort of see that. I'm just glad they didn't put it in the top 10 because it just isn't that good, artistically-speaking.

I think it was quite a creative leap for the group. I can see where they nicked an idea from a mainstream artist here and there, and I can even see that two of the songs were covers (though quite radically rearranged in both cases), and I've grown to appreciate that some of the lyrics are rather embarrassing now that I've gotten older (same for Supernatural, which I was just listening to today). But I still see that it was a pretty big leap forward in terms of really getting the three voices of the group involved and expressing themselves in musical styles that were of interest to all three. I also think there's more depth in that album than people give the group credit for - most will concentrate on the title track and maybe "In the Light" since those were probably the biggest hits, but I think it takes skill to write something like "What If I Stumble?" or "What Have We Become?"

Overrated album in Christian circles, IMO, as it isn't even really that important either.

Its influence on Christian music was pretty massive. Remember that this was 1995. Christian radio was hesitant about dc Talk's style to begin with, then they changed things up, and while it might sound like that stuff would all fit seamlessly onto Christian radio now, I remember early reviews saying a track or two might just be slick enough to work as a radio single, implying that this was fairly radical for them at the time. (Christian rock radio, less so, but then they were going to have a tough time giving a group a second look that was perceived as a rap act.) Even the gatekeepers - the most conservative and hard to impress of the bunch, generally - had to acknowledge that this was a big deal. Jesus Freak led the way for a more "alternative" reimagining of several artists' careers - some more successful than others. It also made a lot easier for existing rock/alternative artists to fit in by doing what they were already doing. That may not be so important to music overall, but it was hugely important to Christian music.

Needless to say, I'm with the haters on this one. I was just thinking "let's leave off the butt-rock, mkay?"

I generally see "butt-rock" as loose, fast, and just tossed off for the stupid fun of it. Like a bad wannabe Ramones or something. Maybe we have different definitions, but Creed was far too overwrought, pretentious, and caught in the tempo doldrums to really fit this description.

Yeah, #1 or thereabouts sounds about right to me.   

I'd just stick it at the top of a different list altogether.

The drop from #1 to #2 on this list is just dramatic, going from a stone-cold classic to, you know, a pretty good P.O.D. album. A reorder may have fixed this to a large degree (without my preference for changing their picks).

The ranking of Satellite supports my theory that the impact of individual songs meant more to them than the quality of full albums. Satellite contains some amazing songs, and a number of fun ones, but also some downright painful ones that are difficult to get through. It was the album than got me into P.O.D. because it had the least of the stupid songs.

[ewok20t3]

I generally see "butt-rock" as loose, fast, and just tossed off for the stupid fun of it. Like a bad wannabe Ramones or something. Maybe we have different definitions, but Creed was far too overwrought, pretentious, and caught in the tempo doldrums to really fit this description.

I've always heard "butt-rock" used to describe bands like Nickelback, Hinder, Theory of A Dead Man, Creed, etc. One definition I read awhile back called it "assembly line rock", so that's generally what comes to my mind in determining a "butt-rock" band.

I actually used that term to describe Nickelback at work one time, and now every time I talk about music I like they say, "that's butt-rock", even though they have never listened to anything that isn't on the radio. All I can do is shake my head.

[murlough23]

I've always heard "butt-rock" used to describe bands like Nickelback, Hinder, Theory of A Dead Man, Creed, etc. One definition I read awhile back called it "assembly line rock", so that's generally what comes to my mind in determining a "butt-rock" band.

I actually used that term to describe Nickelback at work one time, and now every time I talk about music I like they say, "that's butt-rock", even though they have never listened to anything that isn't on the radio. All I can do is shake my head.

It's probably just a catch-all term for rock that sounds stupid/you don't like. "Assembly line" is a better descriptor for Creed, I think.

[bloop]

I've always heard "butt-rock" used to describe bands like Nickelback, Hinder, Theory of A Dead Man, Creed, etc. One definition I read awhile back called it "assembly line rock", so that's generally what comes to my mind in determining a "butt-rock" band.

This is certainly the way I think of the butt-rock subgenre, and the way it's generally meant. Creed fits it all so well.

http://www.allbuttrock.com/
"Our flagship. Our northern star."

 

The Ramones were punk, or proto-punk, or something like that. But not butt-rock.

[murlough23]

The Ramones were punk, or proto-punk, or something like that. But not butt-rock.

Right. Note that I was referring to wannabe bands trying to sound like The Ramones, not The Ramones themselves.

[bloop]

OK. Regardless, I don't think that's the usual way people think of the term. Urban Dictionary is unavailable here, but I'm pretty sure it would confirm where Merriam Webster is unable.

I'm not sure how a band like you're describing would be categorized. "Garage", maybe?

[murlough23]

OK. Regardless, I don't think that's the usual way people think of the term. Urban Dictionary is unavailable here, but I'm pretty sure it would confirm where Merriam Webster is unable.

Never mind. Someone's misuse of the term when I was in college is to blame here.

[bloop]

Never mind. Someone's misuse of the term when I was in college is to blame here.

Wow. I honestly didn't even know the term went that far back.

[murlough23]

Wow. I honestly didn't even know the term went that far back.

That was before Creed's first album, though I suppose it's possible some Pearl Jam imitators had already cropped up at the time. Still, I wonder if the meaning of the term has morphed over time to mean different types of rock music that some perceive as overly simplistic or dumb.

[spacebrat311]

Wow. I honestly didn't even know the term went that far back.

I've always heard it used to refer to things like Twisted Sister

[bloop]

Now that you mention it, I vaguely remember hearing it in that context.

Now, to figure out the common thread shared among Twisted Sister, Ratt, Creed, and Hinder. Maybe it's a corporate rock thing.

[murlough23]

Now, to figure out the common thread shared among Twisted Sister, Ratt, Creed, and Hinder.

And whatever crappy three-chord punk song my college buddies decided to use as the Hall Director's new outgoing voice mail tag during a game of Truth or Dare at 5 in the morning. "Yeah, put some butt-rock on there; she'll love that!"

[bloop]

Thanks a lot, spacebrat.  Now I have "Nothings Gonna Stop Us Now" by Starship stuck in my head because of the stupid free associations my brain makes when it turns to bad 80s music.

[murlough23]

Thanks a lot, spacebrat.  Now I have "Nothings Gonna Stop Us Now" by Starship stuck in my head because of the stupid free associations my brain makes when it turns to bad 80s music.

We built these memes on rock & roll.

[Aaron]

HM used to be a great magazine.  



Since I'm on a sacrilege tour,  Stryper has never been good.  Ever. EVER EVER EVER. 

[ewok20t3]

HM used to be a great magazine.   

They still have really good articles and features from time to time. I'm just not so sure they see a difference between what's good and what's popular anymore.

[spacebrat311]

HM used to be a great magazine.   



Since I'm on a sacrilege tour,  Stryper has never been good.  Ever. EVER EVER EVER. 

Well, of course not.

Now that you mention it, I vaguely remember hearing it in that context.

Now, to figure out the common thread shared among Twisted Sister, Ratt, Creed, and Hinder. Maybe it's a corporate rock thing.

Maybe. This phorum is the only place I've heard it used to describe anything newer than like 1992, though. Mostly I've heard it used as a term for kind of silly generic hair-bands of the 80s-very early 90s.

[bloop]

I think I've heard it to describe a lot of post-grunge sorts of groups on the internet the last few years (one torrent site even tagged a Nickelback album butt.rock along with why.god.why. I certainly can't disagree), and to describe 80s hair bands and corporate rock . . . hmm, maybe when NPR was discussing the topic or something.

[ewok20t3]

Here's a blog someone wrote about butt rock.
http://mog.com/Sam_The_Artist/blog/1370825
He thinks of it in the way that I've always heard it used, but I was very young in the 80's and wouldn't have known if it was used to describe hair bands.

[spacebrat311]

Here's a blog someone wrote about butt rock.
http://mog.com/Sam_The_Artist/blog/1370825
He thinks of it in the way that I've always heard it used, but I was very young in the 80's and wouldn't have known if it was used to describe hair bands.

My dad seems to think he used and heard the term used all the time in the 80s.

[spacebrat311]

This is what I think of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq7DOCR5uQE&feature=player_embedded#at=36

[murlough23]

I can't believe that blogger dude actually prefers Scott Stapp to Myles Kennedy. (I can't believe someone other than a diehard Creed fan would prefer Stapp to almost any other singer.)

[spacebrat311]

I can't believe that blogger dude actually prefers Scott Stapp to Myles Kennedy. (I can't believe someone other than a diehard Creed fan would prefer Stapp to almost any other singer.)

I'd second him on that, but I'd probably add that they're both just different shades of abysmal to me.