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Author Topic: Worship albums  (Read 651 times)
murlough23
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« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2011, 06:56:05 PM »

I have to stick up for the liturgy here. I find the songs to be generally much deeper than the sort of happy clappy ones I grew up with, and it forces me to treat it differently than I would, say, a concert.

By "liturgy" I don't mean any specific order of service from any particular point in time. What's traditional to us now was new at some point in time, revised from however they did it before because it likely needed to be rethought. Likewise, what's "contemporary" to us now runs the risk of becoming a repetitive liturgy that wasn't really thought through if we don't put some thought into what parts of it serve their purpose and what parts don't.

Traditional hymns, as a rule, seem to be lyrically deeper (as well as more musically accomplished) than a lot of contemporary worship songs. However what we have now is just what survived from an era when I'm willing to bet a lot more songs were being written. There's likely a reason for their staying power, though this doesn't make them entirely immune to criticism. Someone had to pick and choose the best of whatever was being written at the time. Go to some old church you didn't grow up in, page through their hymnal, and I'm willing to bet you'll find some oddities that they never sing any more. (Some of that may just be an issue of the meaning getting lost in translation over time rather than actual quality, but still.)

I don't want to draw the conclusion that only the old stuff is good and worth using; otherwise I become just as traditional as the heavily conservative people I've always disliked for telling me "rock music" has no place in church. I think it has a place just as much as any other genre, but there's never an excuse for doing it thoughtlessly, whether the material is old or new.
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bloop
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« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2011, 07:05:55 PM »

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Traditional hymns, as a rule, seem to be lyrically deeper (as well as more musically accomplished) than a lot of contemporary worship songs.

I may be more inclined to finish that sentence "than damn near all...", but it's not that I'm opposed to contemporary forms. I just think the older songs force my focus on the lyrics in particular, and makes what I'm doing distinct from the day-to-day listening pleasures that I generally prefer as music.
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murlough23
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« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2011, 07:14:39 PM »

I may be more inclined to finish that sentence "than damn near all...", but it's not that I'm opposed to contemporary forms. I just think the older songs force my focus on the lyrics in particular, and makes what I'm doing distinct from the day-to-day listening pleasures that I generally prefer as music.

A song with more well-written lyrics will generally focus attention on those lyrics. Doubly so if it's designed for a group of people to sing. I'm only guessing here, but I don't think the words to most hymns would have seemed "dumbed down" at the time - they're in what would have presumably been modern vernacular when they were written, but they're still verbose and descriptive, partially owing to the structure often being several verses rather than verse/chorus and maybe bridge. Each time you go through that verse, you have new information, and it helped that preachers and theologians were often the writers.

But I don't think that's to the detriment of the music in most cases. Speaking as someone who gets really sick of playing G, C, D, E minor, it can be refreshing to play a hymn and have a more generous sprinkling of chord variations. Arguably this may have kept church music out of the hands of the common person for a while, because back then you probably had to know how to play a pipe organ or at least a piano and figure out all of those different voicings, whereas nowadays, pick up a guitar and learn four chords and you're good to go.

Interestingly, even though I spent my early childhood in a very traditional church, I didn't learn a few of the hymns that are now my favorites until my college years. "O, the Deep Deep Love of Jesus" and "Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing" come to mind. Even though I was all gung-ho about contemporary worship at the time, I came to appreciate the blended approach (both in the same service, contemporary spins on hymns that don't make them unnecessarily difficult to sing, etc.) more than any segregated approach.

Regarding the notion that it's distinct from the music that you listen to for fun... assuming well-written lyrics, how would you feel about worship music that took on more of a current-day, experimental/indie sort of musical style? Assuming they were really being inventive with the music for themselves and not just aping Radiohead's style or whatever. I don't know how feasible such a thing is because part of the aesthetic with some of that music is that the lyrics are more esoteric and don't need to have "a meaning" or even discernible words in some cases. But just throwing that out there to see what you think. Because I suspect part of our problem with contemporary worship is the same as it is with popular music, to a degree - that the style gravitates toward the middle of the road.
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« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2011, 08:09:03 PM »

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But I don't think that's to the detriment of the music in most cases.

Nor do I, but I am saying that it is quite unlike what I fill the rest of my week with musically.

Quote
Regarding the notion that it's distinct from the music that you listen to for fun... assuming well-written lyrics, how would you feel about worship music that took on more of a current-day, experimental/indie sort of musical style? Assuming they were really being inventive with the music for themselves and not just aping Radiohead's style or whatever. I don't know how feasible such a thing is because part of the aesthetic with some of that music is that the lyrics are more esoteric and don't need to have "a meaning" or even discernible words in some cases. But just throwing that out there to see what you think. Because I suspect part of our problem with contemporary worship is the same as it is with popular music, to a degree - that the style gravitates toward the middle of the road.

I'm skeptical that it would work as worship music, which generally works best in communion with others. I can worship with 60 year old Edna who loves "The Lawrence Welk Show" to "Come Thou Font", but to "Phileoteque"? I doubt it would work for her.

(The song doesn't exist btw. I made it up.)
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murlough23
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« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2011, 01:17:37 AM »

Nor do I, but I am saying that it is quite unlike what I fill the rest of my week with musically.

As it is for me... usually. Some of my favorite artists have done hymn projects that I enjoy, or isolated covers that do something interesting with the song without desecrating it... though mileage varies widely from person to person on that topic.

I'm skeptical that it would work as worship music, which generally works best in communion with others. I can worship with 60 year old Edna who loves "The Lawrence Welk Show" to "Come Thou Font", but to "Phileoteque"? I doubt it would work for her.

Problem is, what "works" for much of the congregation doesn't really work for you and I. The typical solution to that problem seems to be going with whatever seems to work for the majority (which is middle of the road by default - that road merely changes with time as a new batch of younger folks gets older). I think the tougher challenge would be to respect the diversity within the congregation and try out some different things, some of which might be your thing and not Edna's, some of which might be her thing and not yours, and some of which might be puzzling to both of you, I guess. Seems like that's the sort of thing Vlad! said his church was going for. I'm willing to bet that at different points in time, someone in that congregation doesn't get it, but they're probably better for taking the risk.

(The song doesn't exist btw. I made it up.)

Doesn't mean I don't still want to hear it!
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« Reply #45 on: October 04, 2011, 05:13:30 AM »

I think what I'm saying in a nutshell is that I can get into what the older congregation members jive with while I don't expect them to make an effort to get with something that would be nearly exclusively mine in that congregation.

I think it's important to play music the congregation can sing and worship together. Taking it away from bleeding edge innovation, I'm brought to thinking of a few older songs we have sung that took a while to work because they were just a little more complex rhythmically. That may be ok, but they might want to prep us for some of those deliveries.
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