Does doctrine matter?

[Vlad!]

I go to college in Virginia (Virginia Tech), and it's a great state. Glad to have you here!

 

[smartash]

well then, Go Hokies  

[standman87]

Wow! What a great dicussion I just read. Let me add my perspective.

The true church doctrine should always be the Bible. Christians should stick to the Bible. Josh is refering to people who clearly 'fail to see' a part of scripture. I see this as the worst thing in Christianity. For if you fail to believe or apply one section of scripture, it is quite possible that your whole Christian 'life' will crumble. All of church doctrine (true and false) have connections to salvation. What is frustrating Josh, is when some self-proclaimed Christian says he or she whole-heartedly believes something completely opposite to what the Bible says, and then the church is forced to accept this because they don't want to say the truth because it might make some people leave the church.

Now on the more specific front,  I don't believe that freewill and predestination needs to create separate churches. I believe we have freewill in deciding whether we will follow God's predestined plan for us. God knows what we choose in advance so he knows whether we will follow His will or not. Freewill and predestination are both comforting thoughts; we have some purpose while still having a powerful God ruling over us.

Yet when it comes to determining sin, doctrine must be set. The unwillingness to say, "I have sinned and with God's help may I never do it again," with many wrongs such as abortion, immoral sexual conduct, and other controversial sins is unacceptable within a church. To say 'wrong is right' is really what confuses the non-Christian.

As my dad always says,

There is a time to speak of the grace of God and a time to speak of the law of God.

In otherwords state the Word as it is. A sin is first met with the consequences of the world, yet either forgiveness or the alternative payment is also neccessary.

I think my words are a little jumbled, but let me know your opinion of my perspective.

[Vlad!]

The true church doctrine should always be the Bible. Christians should stick to the Bible. Josh is refering to people who clearly 'fail to see' a part of scripture. I see this as the worst thing in Christianity. For if you fail to believe or apply one section of scripture, it is quite possible that your whole Christian 'life' will crumble. All of church doctrine (true and false) have connections to salvation. What is frustrating Josh, is when some self-proclaimed Christian says he or she whole-heartedly believes something completely opposite to what the Bible says, and then the church is forced to accept this because they don't want to say the truth because it might make some people leave the church.

In the case of someone proclaiming a doctrine that is clearly contrary to what the scriptures teach (though again, this is a grey area, since (for example) Josh probably considers free will to be contrary to what the scriptures teach...), I think the church should gently and lovingly correct that person. Just because I don't think churches should be autocratic about doctrine doesn't mean I'm advocating the touchy-feely religious pluralism you see in too many 'liberal' churches today...

Now on the more specific front,  I don't believe that freewill and predestination needs to create separate churches. I believe we have freewill in deciding whether we will follow God's predestined plan for us. God knows what we choose in advance so he knows whether we will follow His will or not. Freewill and predestination are both comforting thoughts; we have some purpose while still having a powerful God ruling over us.

I've tried to keep the free will/predestination debate out of this conversation, since I'm not sure that dead horse needs any more flogging.

Yet when it comes to determining sin, doctrine must be set. The unwillingness to say, "I have sinned and with God's help may I never do it again," with many wrongs such as abortion, immoral sexual conduct, and other controversial sins is unacceptable within a church. To say 'wrong is right' is really what confuses the non-Christian.

We are all sinners, so if we kicked all the sinners out of the church, there wouldn't be anyone left! I agree that flagrant, unrepentant sinners can be damaging to the body of Christ, but why is it that only controversial sins are unnacceptable?  

[standman87]

We are all sinners, so if we kicked all the sinners out of the church, there wouldn't be anyone left! I agree that flagrant, unrepentant sinners can be damaging to the body of Christ, but why is it that only controversial sins are unnacceptable?

I will answer your question.

Controversial is in the context of the world. The Bible says homosexual acts and needlessly killing of any life are sins no doubt about it  (yet forgiveness is always possible).

All unrepentant sin is unnacceptable, yet even worse are those who say that doing things that are wrong is perfectly right - let there be no mistake about it, this is the depraved mind the Bible warns of. Depraved minds must not be allowed to sway the beliefs of a church.

There is really little need to kick many depraved minds out of churches, because most of them leave once they realize that what they believe to be right is considered a sin through the Bibilical church doctrine. Let the depraved minds flood the church, so the may feel the love of God and see the err in their ways - along side the faithful Christians who need the same revival throughout their lives. We must hope that those who reject God change their minds - but acceptance of their unrepentant sin is not the way to lead them to the Father. Doctrine is to be set in the churches upon the Word of God, so that we (the church of God) do not sway any part of our lives from God's will, especially in our attempts to evangelize the lost.

Does that make sense? My next response might take a while - I leave tommorrow for vacation. I'll be back the 20th.

[Vlad!]

All unrepentant sin is unnacceptable, yet even worse are those who say that doing things that are wrong is perfectly right - let there be no mistake about it, this is the depraved mind the Bible warns of. Depraved minds must not be allowed to sway the beliefs of a church.

Isn't that really the definition of unrepentant sin? Is that you don't even see it as wrong anymore?

We've gotten a little off-topic here...the original question dealt with how stritly churches should define and enforce their doctrine, not the role of the church in ministering to the lost.
I do admit, though, that the church's view of sin is something I hadn't considered--I feel the Bible is fairly clear about how a Christian should live his or her life and that churches should hold the asic position that sin separates us from God and should be removed from our lives out of a love for God (and not because we will be saved through the eradication of sin). But I guess that is a doctrinal stance, though I'd consider it pretty integral to Christianity as a religion.

[standman87]

But I guess that is a doctrinal stance, though I'd consider it pretty integral to Christianity as a religion.

That is true, yet many church doctrines have moved away from the basics to be more 'open' to all (I say it is more open to all definitions of sin). I guess I don't believe as strongly as Josh on this issue about certain aspects of the doctrine - but doctrine must have a firm foundation in the Bible, in my strong opinion, to even call themselves a Christian church.

-- Stanton, posting from Atlanta, GA