keeping the sabbath

[linds]

i've been talking with my friends a lot lately about keeping the sabbath.  i was just wondering what thoughts you all have on this subject.

it's easy to take an extreme on this issue, i think, whether you take the path of ultimate christian freedom, or the path of pharisaical legalism.  i want to learn how to have a balanced view of sunday; how can i set apart this day for god, and still ...this sounds bad, but... still have a life?  

what do you do on sundays, usually?  do you think it is wrong to work on sunday?  do you think it is okay to go out to eat on a sunday?  what about those who attend church on saturday--does that make a difference?

[Josh]

Jesus performed miracles and other works on Sunday, so it's obviously okay to do certain things on the sabbath. But where do we draw the line? Should we stick to the vital things, like medical services, or did Jesus' example totally do away with the "no work on Sunday" rule?

I sure dunno. Great question, linds. I've been thinking about it a bit myself recently. I'm looking forward to hearing other pholks' thoughts.

[Vlad!]

Actually, I believe the 'Sabbath' itself is on Saturday. We Christians, not being Jewish, observe it on Sunday. There are some exceptions, but this is the tradidional way to look at it.

And Josh is right: Christ's position (one that I try to emphasize whenever possible) is that rules aren't for their own sake, but there are meanings behind them. So while we show respect for God on Sunday, as we should every day, we also don't just shut down. You will notice that Jesus talks about how we can obey the spirit of the law, not just the letter, but you will notice that the only one of the original 10 Commandments He does not reiterate is following the Sabbath.

In some ways, Sunday isn't just any old day. It's a day for Christians to fellowship, worship, and spend time with one-another. But just like we live life as worship and fellowship with other believers every day of the week, we don't just live Sunday in a cloister. So why not enjoy your day, finish the homework for Monday you put off, watch some football, and give thanks to God for a free day to do all this in?

[bethany]

i've been talking about this a lot with people, some of whom are the same ones lindsay has, and some who aren't, because we're studying genesis at my ruf group, so of course the sabbath came up.

i pretty much agree with vlad!. the sabbath is for rest and fellowship and worship. so think you should do those things on the sabbath that you find restful, worshipful, etc. i think that clearly it should look different from the rest of the week, as it is a day set apart by god. however, i don't think that there are specific thou shalts and thou shalt nots, and paul makes it clear that this is an issue where there is leeway (can't remember the reference - but he lists not condemning others for how they observe the sabbath in a list of 'christian liberty' type things) in how we choose to observe it. so much of it, as with anything else, comes down to it being an issue of the heart. why do you exercise on sunday like every other day of the week? is it because you enjoy exercising, it relaxes you, you feel closer to god when you're oustide running, or is it because you don't trust that you'll still be in shape come monday unless you force yourself to work at it on sunday as well as the rest of the week?

as for me, i go to church, and i usually go home on sunday (i live in the dorms) and use the day to read, relax, watch a movie, hang out with my family, eat, etc.--all those things i'm too busy to do during the week. i also have made a personal decision not to work at a job (blockbuster in my case right now, though only for one more week, yay!) or do schoolwork on sunday. school is just as much my job as working at blockbuster 15 hrs a week is, and one way i observe the sabbath and honor it is by resting from that area of work in my life.

one thing that has been brought up in my discussions that i think is important is that we live in a culture where we take rests all the time during the week, and saturday is actually generally more of a day of rest than sunday is, because we just chill all day and then sunday we do the work we've procrastinated. i'm not saying you HAVE to observe the sabbath on sunday (because as vlad! pointed out, it was originally on saturday, and jews still observe it then (though part of the sabbath is about the church fellowship and resting together, so if we all do it different days, that kind of defeats the purpose)), but if you do, i think a very real part of that is consciously continuing to work on friday night, saturday, etc. so for example, i might have to choose to not go out with friends saturday night, because i need to stay home and write the paper that's due monday morning so i don't have to work on it on sunday. that's something that i feel is a good thing for me personally, because almost all the time when i do homework on sunday, it's not because i actually had no time for it during the rest of the week/weekend; it's because i uesd that free time to watch tv or get online and cruise forums instead of doing homework. so i think that i'm just being lazy when i use the excuse of having been busy to do my work (schoolwork) on sunday.

but, like i said, that's just how i've chosen to apply it to my life. it's definitely something that i think everyone should study and pray and think about, because it's something that isn't often discussed or preached on, and it's clearly an important issue in the bible. but it's up to everyone to make up their own mind about how exactly it looks in their own life.

[rebel546]

I was over at a friend's house today... and their family does family devotions on Sunday. His dad is on this kick where he has been really convicted about doing stuff on sundays. His family went out to a movie and he didn't go because he was convicted too much. So their whole devotion was on following the sabbath.

I don't want to follow it in a legalistic way. I think I will still drive places and run and stuff... but I do want to try to get all my homework done on Saturdays now... cause that way I won't be so stressed and enjoy his day a little better. Unlike THIS weekend when I still have a big Precal test hanging over my head.

[Josh]

Unlike THIS weekend when I still have a big Precal test hanging over my head.

I think we're coloring graphs in AP Stats tomorrow...

(Sorry, I just love rubbing in the fact that I'm getting college credit for a vastly easier math class... =D )

[Vlad!]

Potentially getting college credit

I would love it if I could get all my homework out of the way on Saturday. I did most of my homework on Saturday this weekend, and it gave me some extra time to write some trailer reviews, work on an article for generation5.org that I've been putting off forever, and watch some NFL football without having to do homework during it. So I'm sure that lack of procrastination is a good thing, and I admire those who do it consistently. I'm just saying that, if I wasn't doing work during Sunday, I probably wouldn't be filling in the gaps with some deep meditation or extra Bible reading...though maybe it wouldn't hurt.

Mark, what does your friend's dad do instead of doing the stuff he used to do?

[bethany]

I'm just saying that, if I wasn't doing work during Sunday, I probably wouldn't be filling in the gaps with some deep meditation or extra Bible reading...though maybe it wouldn't hurt.

Mark, what does your friend's dad do instead of doing the stuff he used to do?

i don't think that you necessarily have to be either working or reading the bible. i just think that the key is that the sabbath is made for man, not man for the sabbath (mark 2). it's a day for us to relax, to do things we enjoy, to rest in god, fellowship with other believers and god, and take time off from the busyness of the rest of the week to do those things we find enjoyable and restful that are pleasing to god.

[Vlad!]

That's the way I look at it, but this dad of Mark's friend doesn't seem to agree.

[linds]

i went to a camp (pya camp, which is a pca youth thing...) this summer, where on one day we had an extensive discussion of the sabbath.  one important point that struck me was that the sabbath is a break from routine.  that doesn't necessarily mean that you do nothing on sunday but meditation and prayer, as some people apparently take it; it could mean that it's the one day that you stay at home and watch movies in the afternoon, or the one day that you go out and have coffee with your friends.  as bethany said, it's a gift from god, and an opportunity to do something different than all the other days of the week.  
sure, we're creatures of habit, but god knew that a day off from habit can do us a world of good.

[Vlad!]

do nothing on sunday but meditation and prayer, as some people apparently take it;

Ow, hey, I was just making conversation  ;]

I guess that makes sense, but whence the "keep it holy" clause? If we are to follow the Law here, doesn't that suggest that the traditional Jewish interpretation is correct?

[oneafroboy]

I'll be blunt because I'm short on time.

I don't think you have to "keep the Sabbath day holy". I don't think that that  commandment still holds true for Christians today. I certainly believe that fellowshipping with other believers is great and important, but I don't think it matters when you do it. I mean, we should fellowship at all times.

Read Colossians 2:13-23. I don't feel like taking the time to post it here. But here are some verses that stick out (but I give you the whole passage, because I think things are best read within a larger context).

"He [Christ] forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These area a shadow of things to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

I'm not saying don't go to church. But if you don't, I don't think you're sinning. I've been searching forever for that verse where Paul says what's the difference between someone who keeps the Sabbath and someone who treats all the days the same? As long as both give thanks, and are convinced in their own minds, then they are fine.

I do think it's best to take a rest once a week. I also think church is good for fellowshipping, corporate worship, and especially teaching. But I would never say it's a hard fast rule, nor would I judge someone's faith based on whether they "observed" the Sabbath or not.

And that's my two cents.    

[linds]

good input, oneafroboy.

and vlad, i never meant that as something that you'd respond to with "ow."    i was actually refering to the conversation earlier, about whoever's friend's father. (i'm too lazy to look back   )

so...i'm going to put out a hypothetical situation...
what if you were a christian and you owned a business---let's say a restaurant, because restaurants get a lot of business on sundays--then would you personally feel convicted to keep the restaurant open on sundays or closed?  i'm not saying that i know the best answer, because i don't, but what would you guys do in that situation?

[oneafroboy]

Well, Chik-fil-A, a reputable fast food chain, and a fast growing one at that, is Christian-owned and they do not open on Sundays.

I honestly don't know what the best thing to do is. I don't think it would be wrong to open on Sundays. I mean you could argue for both sides.

I'll have to think on this some more. Ah, now you've got me thinking, linds.  

[Vlad!]

and vlad, i never meant that as something that you'd respond to with "ow."    i was actually refering to the conversation earlier, about whoever's friend's father. (i'm too lazy to look back   )

Oh, I see...your comments (apparently unintentionally) repeated something I had said earlier almost verbatim, so I assumed I was being scorned  

so...i'm going to put out a hypothetical situation...
what if you were a christian and you owned a business---let's say a restaurant, because restaurants get a lot of business on sundays--then would you personally feel convicted to keep the restaurant open on sundays or closed?  i'm not saying that i know the best answer, because i don't, but what would you guys do in that situation?

I think I would keep the place open. After all, people need a place to fellowship; why not let them pay me money while they're doing it?

Though I WAS joking about that last part, I really would keep it open. But what I wouldn't do is ask my employees to work on Sunday if they didn't want to or had church or whatever.  

[bethany]

if my grandparents owned a really cool little restaurant with the yummiest scones in town, i'd insist that they stay open at least through lunch on sundays... it'd be nice if they served green cake, too...    

[Guest]

bet--
the green cake...sounds like a good name for a restaurant.
but...just to make it sound sophisticated, i'll call it "the green gateau."  
   

[latinchic]

Every day is my Sabbath.

latinchic    

[rebel546]

Vlad, in answer to your question, as far as I can tell he sits in his chair and reads the Bible or reads Christian books or sleeps or leads family devotions... but that's just in observing one part of sunday for him... and the rest of the family pretty much goes on as usual... he doesn't impose his beliefs on anyone else... and I respect him for that...

I agree with the breaking from routine thing...  

[Vlad!]

On most Sundays here in Blacksburg I end up sleeping instead of going to church  I guess that makes me sort of similar. I'm keeping it so freaking holy I don't even expent the effort to leave the room.

At Church this morning, the pastor made an interesting comment about the Sabbath...when Christ healed a man on the Sabbath and some of the Jewish religious leaders thought that was wrong, he commented that the Jews will circumsise on the Sabbath. That act of covenant and grace was considered more important than the (Jewish) law to not work on the Sabbath. I guess I don't really have a point for this, but It's interesting nonetheless.