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Josh
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« on: November 22, 2003, 09:36:43 PM » |
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Does anyone else find this depressing? |
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Skrappybiskit
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« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2003, 07:23:48 AM » |
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I find a lot of churches that are addicted to technology at the expense of the meat of the gospel depressing.
Skraps
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bloop
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« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2003, 08:40:19 AM » |
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Actually, the "prosperity Gospel" offends me most in that article. I wish churches like that would go away, never to see the light of day again. Unfortunately, I don't see it happening with our capitalist consumerist culture.
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Enjoy our pub. user/pw: thephorum Follow me on Grooveshark or Spotify. username: iceybloop |
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Vlad!
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« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2003, 06:54:54 PM » |
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I don't get offended by high technology in the sanctuary; I think that most churches can benefit from excellent quality sound and maybe projection TVs where sermon outlines or words to the songs can be displayed. But raucous "worship services" usually leave me cold and rowdy, flashy churches too often forget to invite God.
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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bdg13disciple
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« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2003, 09:09:16 AM » |
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and when you really think about your church services...
are they much different?
peace. . .
love . . .
bdg . . .
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Josh
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« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2003, 10:07:42 AM » |
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and when you really think about your church services...
are they much different?
Yes. |
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Skrappybiskit
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« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2003, 01:22:30 PM » |
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Honestly? They're totally different. Where these people have turned Jesus into commerce, the churches I attend hold him as Savior, and worship him as such.
Skraps
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Josh
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« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2003, 02:44:30 PM » |
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And my church doesn't go out of its way to make the services "entertaining," because, really, that's just not the point. That's why I'm not a big fan of modern worship music... churches try hard to make their music sound like rock music, but, frankly, if I wanted to hear rock music, I'd go to a Radiohead show over a church service.
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bdg13disciple
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« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2003, 08:40:18 PM » |
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well, perhaps not as flamboyant...
but i've noticed a trend in churches across America that is similar to this...
pimping music to draw a crowd...
it's almost all marketing these days...
draw them in to boost your numbers...
it is a sad day for the church...
the good news...
is that we are the true church...
peace...
love...
bdg...
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Josh
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« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2003, 08:44:03 PM » |
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Oh, yeah, I certainly agree with you that it IS a sad and disturbing trend in most churches. I was just exempting my own church.
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Rachel
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« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2003, 11:29:00 AM » |
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I know what you mean about "its all about the numbers". One thing I am still bitter about is that my church forced my youth pastor to resign because the numbers of our youth group were declining. He was a really great youth pastor too!! :angry:
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And I wish my days to be
Bound each to each by natural piety.
-William Wordsworth
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Skrappybiskit
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« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2003, 02:14:49 PM » |
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I know where you're coming from. This whole "paint by the numbers" shit is totally out of control. I mean, reaching people is a good thing. But also remember amidst your fireworks display that God has chosen (in his words) the foolish things to confound the wise, and our modernity and flashy complexity isn't the key to missions, to reaching people, to touching hearts. The Spirit is, and that's what seems to be missing in so many of these places; they have lots of spirit, but not lots of the Spirit, if you know what I mean. Sometimes I almost wish we'd kept the house church model  Skraps |
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Iris
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« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2003, 10:31:49 AM » |
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check this out... the wierdest thing I've seen in a while. It must be a fake.. I hope. Landover Baptist |
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street bum.
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oneafroboy
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« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2003, 06:47:32 PM » |
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\"Living your life like you're trapped in a bad rap video is just not that appealing.\"
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rebel546
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« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2003, 07:22:10 PM » |
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wow...
My church is rather flashy... which I don't like. Even the early chinese churches did that... they put rice in their bibles to attract more people...
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oneafroboy
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« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2003, 07:33:43 PM » |
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That's why I'm not a big fan of modern worship music... churches try hard to make their music sound like rock music, but, frankly, if I wanted to hear rock music, I'd go to a Radiohead show over a church service. I think I'm not a big fan of modern worship music because most of it isn't very good. It has nothing to do with the fact that it is rock music. A lot of songs-now-hymns were born out of the music of their time. Now, my church doesn't do "modern rock worship music," but we do contemporary gospel music (with hymns, too). It's pretty good and it doesn't bother me a bit. Maybe some day these songs (the better ones) will be put in future AME hymnals. So, I guess my question is, Josh, do you not like modern worship music because it's rock or because of it's often mediocre quality? |
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\"Living your life like you're trapped in a bad rap video is just not that appealing.\"
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Josh
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« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2003, 07:43:34 PM » |
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So, I guess my question is, Josh, do you not like modern worship music because it's rock or because of it's often mediocre quality? I suppose the latter is more the case, though, even if it were of a much higher quality, the question would remain: Why not go to an REM show instead? |
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oneafroboy
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« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2003, 07:50:01 PM » |
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Well, because the music serves two different purposes. Music has always had the possibility of serving two purposes. If I am in a worship setting, singing modern rock worship music, the music is a vehicle, a way in which I praise Jehovah. If I were to go to an REM concert (though I'm not into REM at all), or any rock concert, it would be too enjoy the music and see some musicians I like play live. Big difference. Why not go to an REM concert? Because then the music wouldn't be serving the same purpose, and when I go to church, I am to be worshipping God in spirit and in truth--one of the ways I can do that is through music.
Just an aside: You seem like one of those people who prefer very serious, solemn worship songs (that is not to say that worship isn't serious, but I guess I mean low key or not very upbeat music). Is this true? (Depending on your answer, another discussion could be sparked...)
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« Last Edit: November 26, 2003, 07:50:25 PM by oneafroboy »
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\"Living your life like you're trapped in a bad rap video is just not that appealing.\"
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DvChWi
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« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2003, 07:50:12 PM » |
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I suppose the latter is more the case, though, even if it were of a much higher quality, the question would remain: Why not go to an REM show instead? Its cheaper?  J/K |
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Fun facts about Chuck Norris:
Newton's Third Law is wrong: Although it states that for each action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, there is no force equal in reaction to a Chuck Norris roundhouse kick.
Chuck Norris can divide by zero.
Chuck Norris CAN believe it's not butter.
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Josh
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« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2003, 07:54:48 PM » |
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Well, because the music serves two different purposes. Music has always had the possibility of serving two purposes. If I am in a worship setting, singing modern rock worship music, the music is a vehicle, a way in which I praise Jehovah. If I were to go to an REM concert (though I'm not into REM at all), or any rock concert, it would be too enjoy the music and see some musicians I like play live. Big difference. Why not go to an REM concert? Because then the music wouldn't be serving the same purpose, and when I go to church, I am to be worshipping God in spirit and in truth--one of the ways I can do that is through music.
And this would be where it sort of becomes a matter of the genre. If worship music really was on the same level of quality as REM's stuff, then... well... I'd have a very hard time worshipping. I'd be too distracted by the drummer, the guitar solo, the singing, or whatever else. That's why I prefer the organ music at my church; it's very unobtrusive. And yes, I generally do prefer the kind of singing that you described. |
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oneafroboy
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« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2003, 08:09:29 PM » |
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I'll agree with you about the fact that sometimes the music can be distracting. As I said, I actually don't prefer to worship to rock-influenced music. My church does gospel music, which is very vocal oriented. I don't mind when the musicians really get into it though. If it's a solemn song, then, yeah, it would probably be distracting. Yes, I like hymns, too. But I think it's good to have a mix. I also like songs that you can move to, that you can dance to (I love it when the asst. pastors dance, it's great!). I think you can worship God with more than your voice. On those songs, I don't mind if the musicians start going a bit crazy. Because then, it's not just through your voice that you're expressing praise, but through your body. You've got to have a decent beat for that (of course, I argue that all good music ought to have a beat. But I digress.  ). I do also agree that rock music is a bit too much for explicit worship music. Sometimes it get's too flashy too entertainment-oriented. That's what I don't like. I also think it comes down to preference. Some genres of music I could not see as explicitly worshipful (because all kinds of music can be worshipful). But sometimes, it is just a preference over modern rock stuff, hymns, gospel, etc. The important thing is that one worships in Spirit and in Truth. If a certain type of music gets in the way for someone, then perhaps it's time for that person to rethink whether it's an appropriate way for them to worship. As an aside, our church has a pianist, an organist, a drummer (sometimes), a bassist (sometimes) and a choir, but no guitarist. I tend to like keyboard-oriented worship music myself. |
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\"Living your life like you're trapped in a bad rap video is just not that appealing.\"
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bloop
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« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2003, 08:59:11 PM » |
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check this out... the wierdest thing I've seen in a while. It must be a fake.. I hope. Landover Baptist Off-topic, but Landover Baptist is satire - a joke. They can be funny sometimes, but then, they go too far with their heavy-handed atheistic agenda sometimes. |
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Enjoy our pub. user/pw: thephorum Follow me on Grooveshark or Spotify. username: iceybloop |
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Vlad!
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« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2003, 08:11:07 PM » |
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I don't mind contemporary worship...as long is it's obvious that the focus is on Christ, not the band or choir. That's the real difference I find between a worship service and a concert, even a Christian one. But there's something moving about the older, more liturgical-style worship songs that seems solemnly appropriate for presenting worship as a gift to the creator of the world. But the newer songs also bring something good to the table, and I think a good mix of both is the best way to go.
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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Skrappybiskit
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« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2003, 07:25:27 AM » |
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Agreed. I just hate to see people on both sides of the camp going either "all modern music is so wishy-washy and God hates it so we're going to sing hymns all the time" or "all hymns are so *old* and hard to sing, and I don't even like that kind of music". Josh: when the people of Israel worshipped (see psalm 150), they recognized that God was exulted not only in their vocalizing his praise, but also in the skillful playing of instruments. I think that churches have either lost sight of that (and dogmatized the organ, or the piano, or the guitar) or gone way overboard (with a wall of sound that overpowers the people). Then again, last night I played "I Will Enter His Gates" with my youth group, just me on the djembe (a big hand drum) and it was some pretty wild rhythm Skraps |
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linds
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« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2003, 06:14:31 PM » |
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when i was on a trip in tulsa, ok., i visited a church that was, in my opinion, even worse than all the afore-mentioned churches. seriously, it was the disney-land of churches. there was a carousel inside the building. they had a playland in the nursery that would rival any McDonald's. there was a coffee-shop, a bookstore, an ice-cream shoppe, and, believe it or not, a bank. all of this, and more, inside the church building. the service was like a broadway show. during the music, ambience images, such as running water and fields of grass, were projected onto giant screens. the band was indeed a band, complete with several guitars, piano, flute, violin, cello, trumpet, trombone, saxophone...you name it. what's worse, there were colored lights on the stage that kept flashing and changing throughout the performance. the guy who ran the lights during the service did that for a living. there were even sound effects during the announcements and sermon. it made me feel sick.  |
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\"I saved Latin. What did you ever do?\"
--Rushmore
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Vlad!
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« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2003, 07:04:40 PM » |
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Welcome to McChurch, can we take your order?
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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linds
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« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2003, 09:54:56 PM » |
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exactly.
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\"I saved Latin. What did you ever do?\"
--Rushmore
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GusX:
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« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2003, 12:46:14 AM » |
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Welcome to McChurch, can we take your order? Oooh oooh.. I want a happy meal.. hold the meat.... (I thought it was funny...) |
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But of course, I could be wrong... [ But I doubt it. ]
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