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Vlad!
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« on: December 02, 2003, 01:58:39 PM » |
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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GusX:
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« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2003, 09:26:00 AM » |
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Yes.. You should just sit there and be helpless , allowing them to hurt you.
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2003, 09:30:08 AM by GusX: »
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But of course, I could be wrong... [ But I doubt it. ]
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Josh
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« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2003, 09:46:05 PM » |
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Man... this is tough. I've been puzzling over this one for many moons.
In the Kingdom of Heaven, up is down and down is up and the first will be last and only the humble will be exalted. Everything's backwards. And that's important to remember here, I guess. Earthly wisdom dictates that we take revenge on those who harm us, or at least defend ourselves. The teachings of Jesus Christ, however, rarely go along with earthly wisdom.
So it's a tough call.
A very tough call.
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GusX:
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« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2003, 12:42:52 AM » |
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For me..I will give an answer that works for me, It by no means gives a clear cut definition .. or answer to anyone but perhaps you can pull out something of the same for your own faith life.... As a Christian, and one who believes that if they die, they are going to be with God, I look at it this way.... ( despite my last comments.. just ment to be funny sorry for wasting your time) If I die I end up with God, but should that require me to let myself die for something other than my faith ? If you attack me for no other reason then to steal my wallet.. I would give you the cash... and you can take off.. but If you just attack me, Im gonna put up a fight.. to get away.. But if it came down to an issue of " What do you believe" my answer... " God of the Bible" (my answer I pray !@!!) and you are gonna kill me. well, I will put up a struggle.. but I have confidence In God's power. The hardest part is to act out that... but yeah.. it gives the jist of my thoughts...
cheers... - Gus -
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But of course, I could be wrong... [ But I doubt it. ]
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Vlad!
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« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2003, 10:15:38 AM » |
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« Last Edit: December 05, 2003, 10:21:08 AM by Vlad! »
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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GusX:
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« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2003, 11:48:38 AM » |
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So, did we just agree that, both violence and non violence have there place - but non - violence is the more desireable... ?
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But of course, I could be wrong... [ But I doubt it. ]
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Vlad!
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« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2003, 12:58:09 PM » |
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Sounds like it. I generally support a more teleological approach where one's motives don't matter as much as one's actions, but in the case of violence I do want to emphasize that a motive of defense and as little damage as possible is really the only way to go. Violence for the sake of revenge should be highly suspect, if indeed it is tolerated at all.
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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oneafroboy
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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2003, 01:25:06 PM » |
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A lot of good thinking going on. I think violence, at least individually, should be one of the last resorts one takes. And I think we have an obligation to protect those in danger, or those who are weak and cannot protect themselves. If that means violence to save them from harm of life, than I think that is the best way to apply the law of love--which in the end is what really counts.
I am a big fan of MLK Jr. Great leader. (Sinner like all other people.) I think this country owes a lot to him for what he did, no matter what race you are.
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« Last Edit: December 05, 2003, 03:53:40 PM by Vlad! »
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\"Living your life like you're trapped in a bad rap video is just not that appealing.\"
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polka_dot
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« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2003, 07:10:58 PM » |
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I've thought about this topic a lot, and have come to the conclusion that for myself, personally, violence is not an option. Ever. However, I'm not going to tell Christians in general that they should believe as I do. It is a very complex topic, and I really waffle back and forth on what I believe about it. I belong to a pacifist denomination, so if you care to read what my church says on the issue: http://www.mbconf.ca/believe/confession/love.en.html. One thing I like to remember is that "there is a way that seems right to a man..." Just because the world tells you that being a pacifist is being a wuss doesn't make it true in God's eyes. Most pacifists who are terribly passionate people who always stand up for what they believe is right. |
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OUT! OUT! You demons of stupidity! - Dogbert
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oneafroboy
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« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2003, 05:55:25 PM » |
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I do have one question for you polka_dot. This is honestly just a question for pondering...
If you were to be walking down the street and you saw a man raping a little girl, what would you do? Would you do anything? How would you stop him?
I'm just wandering how you as a pacifist would deal with this situation.
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\"Living your life like you're trapped in a bad rap video is just not that appealing.\"
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polka_dot
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« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2003, 12:55:20 PM » |
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I hate questions like that....but I'll give it a shot.
I honestly don't know what I would do, because even if I was a violent person, I'm not really strong enough to take on a guy (especially if he was a fairly big guy). But if I was stronger, I probably would jump on him and pull him away. Honestly, I don't really consider that to be against my beliefs. What I have a problem with is the people who would literally beat on the guy until he collapsed because they were angry at what he had done.
When I'm talking about non-violence, I'm talking about not going to war to kill other people. I'm talking about not believing in the death penalty, stuff like that. I'm not taking issue with me punching a guy who was trying to take my child.
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OUT! OUT! You demons of stupidity! - Dogbert
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Vlad!
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« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2003, 04:07:10 PM » |
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When I'm talking about non-violence, I'm talking about not going to war to kill other people. I'm talking about not believing in the death penalty, stuff like that. I'm not taking issue with me punching a guy who was trying to take my child. So what's the difference between punching a guy who was trying to take your child and sending a bunch of people to punch a bunch of guys who try to take a bunch of children? |
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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GusX:
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« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2003, 05:24:27 PM » |
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So what's the difference between punching a guy who was trying to take your child and sending a bunch of people to punch a bunch of guys who try to take a bunch of children? The difference is " a bunch of ". Pretty obvious isn't it ? |
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But of course, I could be wrong... [ But I doubt it. ]
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Nathan
Inphrequent Poster
Posts: 130
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« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2003, 07:45:32 PM » |
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The difference is " a bunch of ". Pretty obvious isn't it ? Yes, but morally speaking, how can the one be justifiable while the other isn't? I guess one difference is the possibility--or rather, the certainty--of injuring innocents in a war. But then, there is also the fact that innocent people often suffer in the absence of war, as was happening in Iraq under Sadaam. |
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« Last Edit: December 25, 2003, 07:48:15 PM by Nathan »
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Today I was not blinded, crippled and dipped in boiling silver to make a graven image of the spiritual condition to which I naturally tend. So it was a good day.
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