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Josh
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« on: December 16, 2003, 07:32:01 PM » |
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Yeah, so this technically pertains to a popular musician, but I thought the Faith board was a more appropriate home for this thread. Yahoo News reports: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lauryn Hill blasted the Catholic Church at the Vatican all-star gala Christmas concert Saturday night. In front of an audience of 7,500 guests in the Paul VI hall, Hill read a prepared statement: "I'm not here to celebrate, like you, the birth of Christ, but to ask you why you are not in mourning for his death in this place," Hill said. "Holy God has witnessed the corruption of your leadership, of the exploitation and abuses which are the minimum that can be said for the clergy," she added, calling on the hierarchy to "repent." An aide to Cardinal Camillo Ruini, who is head of the Italian bishops conference, called the incident "a rash outburst. An uneducated act showing a lack of respect for the place she was a guest and for those who invited her." Italian press reported that it's unlikely that her portion will be included when the concert is broadcast on Italian television on Christmas Eve ... So... what do you think of that little comment? Keep in mind that Hill is, I believe, a professing Christian. Was she right? Was she correct in her assessment but not tactful enough with her words? Or did she totally miss the boat? |
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Vlad!
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« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2003, 09:36:54 PM » |
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The "Mourning His death" part seems a little sketchy to me...what in the world was she trying to convey there? That's seemingly apropos of nothing. And as for the clergy part, well, I don't really see eye-to-eye with the Catholic church on a lot of stuff, but I know both several practicing Catholics and a few priests, and they all strike me as being devoted to God's word and His will, however erroneous some of their teaching may be. If she is referring to the semi-recent scandals regarding child molestation, well, it was certainly tragic, and I'm glad it's come out and is (hopefully) being dealt with, but I think the media made it into something bigger than it really was. The percentage of priests accused of this is roughly equal to the percentage of the entire population accused of similar crimes, so all it tells us is what most of us already know, although it's something the Catholic church could stand to hear: priests are human, flawed like the rest of us. Nobody is above sin, and nobody is righteous.
So no, I don't think Hill was particularly justified in her statment. Which isn't to say that I think the Church doesn't need to be shaken up a bit.
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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bloop
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« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2003, 06:44:42 PM » |
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Hmm...the statement seems to have some point to it, but just what it is I am unsure.
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Enjoy our pub. user/pw: thephorum Follow me on Grooveshark or Spotify. username: iceybloop |
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Iris
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« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2003, 09:59:33 PM » |
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I like what she said, and I don't think she should have to water down what she feels.. Why do I think this? Probably because both of you disagreed with it, and I always have to be an ass by going against popular belief..
I say good for her. It takes guts to stand up in front of thousands and drop a controversial bomb like that.
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street bum.
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Vlad!
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« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2003, 09:55:41 AM » |
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Just because it takes guts to do something doesn't make it right. Launching into a vitrioloc diatribe against the Catholic church may be standing up for what she believes, but is it really necessary or helpful?
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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Josh
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« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2003, 12:23:00 PM » |
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The Bible tells us to speak the truth in love; I'd say Lauryn has the "speak the truth" part down pretty well, but the love seems to be missing. Her comment seemed holier-than-thou and mean-spirited instead of humble and constructive.
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Iris
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« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2003, 04:51:10 PM » |
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maybe she had already tried "humble and constructive" and it wasnt working. .. ? Jesus wasn't so nice to the pharisees all the time.
We are talking about leaders of the church. The very people who stand for christianity as a whole are supposed to be setting the example for other christians, and for the world. So Lauryn wasn't being "holier than thou" , but saying, hey, you are supposed to be christians, so start acting like it.
Also, it seems to me to be an attempt to show the world that not all Christians are hypocritical flakes, and we have something we believe in strongly enough to make a stand like that.
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street bum.
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Vlad!
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« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2003, 06:07:12 PM » |
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Also, it seems to me to be an attempt to show the world that not all Christians are hypocritical flakes, and we have something we believe in strongly enough to make a stand like that. Instead, we show the world that Christians are infighting, judgemental people. You remember, Jesus could see the hearts of the pharasees and He knew what they were thinking. I don't think Ms. Hill can make that same claim... |
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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Iris
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« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2003, 05:34:52 PM » |
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Instead, we show the world that Christians are infighting, judgemental people. She wasn't judging if she knew for fact that what they are doing goes against the Word. I would even say that a person in the public eye such as Lauryn Hill might feel it were wrong to sit in complacency, merely observe the wrong doings of the church, and not do more than shake her head. ...He knew what they were thinking. I don't think Ms. Hill can make that same claim... I don't think you can either. |
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« Last Edit: December 29, 2003, 06:03:56 PM by Vlad! »
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street bum.
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latinchic
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« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2004, 07:13:35 PM » |
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It was rude, and it was neither the time nor the place.
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"Mercy's eyes are blue....and when she places them in front of you.....nothing holds a roman candle to....the solemn warmth you feel. There's no measuring of it as nothing else is love." -The Shins
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polka_dot
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« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2004, 06:55:53 PM » |
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...and you wonder why Catholics think Protestants are uneducated fools. Honestly, she should do a little bit of research into what Catholics believe. She came off sounding like an uneducated teenager who was just repeating what her parents told her. Holy God has witnessed the corruption of your leadership, of the exploitation and abuses which are the minimum that can be said for the clergy Though I don't agree with a lot of Catholic theology, I must say that I have experienced less corruption & exploitation in the Catholic Church than I have in the Protestant church...that whole "plank in your own eye" thing comes to mind. |
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OUT! OUT! You demons of stupidity! - Dogbert
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Vlad!
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« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2004, 08:12:43 AM » |
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Well, the quote doesn't repeat much of her diatribe, so I can't pass much judgement on what she actually said. But regardless of whether she was right or not, I think latinchic is right: it was inappropriate for the circumstance. Though I don't agree with a lot of Catholic theology, I must say that I have experienced less corruption & exploitation in the Catholic Church than I have in the Protestant church...that whole "plank in your own eye" thing comes to mind. I've only attended one Catholic service, but I do have some Catholic friends and I used to know a priest. Although neither Catholics nor Protestants are totally uncorrupt, Protestants, in my experience, tend to acknowledge the fact that their church leaders are flawed humans like the rest of us, whereas Catholics elevate their clergy as being greater and purer than the average layperson. So it's not that one is corrupt and the other is not, it's that one realizes it while the other is blind to it. This is, of course, a generality. But my own observations seem to bear this out. |
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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GusX:
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« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2004, 01:11:53 PM » |
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My experiance is much like Vlad's The major fault that is with the RCC. is their elevation of the clergy to a position , from my perspective, was never ment to be filled by men.
Lauryn's comments are welcomed to my ears, However I would suggest that she should not have been so blunt about it and perhaps done it with a bit more humility.
BUT... What is done, is done, and cannot be undone so let us learn from the mistakes and not make this a "redone."
My 5 cents as usual....
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But of course, I could be wrong... [ But I doubt it. ]
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