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Vlad!
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« on: January 27, 2004, 05:30:05 PM » |
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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oneafroboy
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« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2004, 07:28:07 PM » |
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I'm not really going to answer or attempt to answer your questions in this post, but I did want to comment on the "taint" due to Adam and Eve's sin.
It was not only their descendants that became tainted but ALL of creation became tainted, that is all was cursed because of Adam and Eve. So if you want to tackle the original sin thing at that angle, then you could say that was just part of the curse, the punishment.
Maybe it was a part of God's plan all along to reveal His mercy and grace...? (More on that later. But for now I'll just throw that out there.)
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\"Living your life like you're trapped in a bad rap video is just not that appealing.\"
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Vlad!
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« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2004, 08:04:14 PM » |
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Maybe it was a part of God's plan all along to reveal His mercy and grace...? (More on that later. But for now I'll just throw that out there.) Thanks for addressing my question. But I take extreme exception to this. If I engineer some disaster so I can save someone from it and come out looking good, should that person revere me as his or her savior? Of course not! It would be reprehensible for me to do something like that just so that people will know that I'm a good person (which I really would not be if I did that). |
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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oneafroboy
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« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2004, 08:13:44 PM » |
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I'm not really able to answer the question yet, I just threw that possibility out there.
Right now I've got to clean my computer. Btw, Vlad!, thanks for the link. I'm gonna try to clean out my system tonight.
Remember that God cannot be judged by human standards. What's wrong for us is not always wrong for God, because we are the creation and He is the Creator and He can do pretty much whatever He wants (within His character) with what He has made for His own purposes and to His glory.
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\"Living your life like you're trapped in a bad rap video is just not that appealing.\"
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DvChWi
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« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2004, 02:48:00 PM » |
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Remember that God cannot be judged by human standards. What's wrong for us is not always wrong for God, because we are the creation and He is the Creator and He can do pretty much whatever He wants (within His character) with what He has made for His own purposes and to His glory. I think that the above comment makes a point that is crucial to understanding this issue. We can't hold God to any of our standards, leaving us only with what He has revealed to us in the Scriptures. That being said, this is a very tricky question, one I have discussed before, though. One idea that we came up with was that while there are currently two types of natures, sinful(what we have), and sinless(nobody actually has this, but we will in Heaven.), there might have been a third, unique type of nature for Adam and Eve. Kind of a sinless nature with an exception. Or something like that. |
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Fun facts about Chuck Norris:
Newton's Third Law is wrong: Although it states that for each action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, there is no force equal in reaction to a Chuck Norris roundhouse kick.
Chuck Norris can divide by zero.
Chuck Norris CAN believe it's not butter.
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Vlad!
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« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2004, 03:11:20 PM » |
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Well, I don't think you're getting at the main point of my question (though I admit it was a bit roundabout). Since I believe in free will, I have no problem with why Adam and Eve sinned: God gave them a choice, and they made the wrong one. My problem is why that reflects on me, today. Why is it that we are completely controleld by the flesh until we are saved? Is it some sort of taint, as I said before, or what? My impression is that Adam and Eve started out on sort of neutral ground: they weren't sinless, but neither were they sinful. Why are we not given the same clean slate? We're not 'innocent until proven guilty,' we're guilty from the get-go. And why? Because some dude so far back I can't even count the generations decided that he wanted that fruit, thank you very much, and to hell with the concequences.
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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oneafroboy
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« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2004, 03:28:50 PM » |
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As I said before, many things in nature were cursed. The whole world was cursed due to Adam's sin. So, our natures too have been cursed, so that we are sinful. It's like a cancer or a virus. Maybe sin is something that became ingrained in what it is to be human, and so we can't get rid of it.
Interesting thought, DvChWi. I don't know that it can be proven. But much of this will probably be speculative.
Maybe God just designed it so that if the first one sinned, then they were all tainted with sin. Maybe there's no humanly logical reason. Maybe that's just part of God's plan (and God's allowed to have a plan). We only get a glimpse of the whole picture. But that's okay. Now, I'll admit, it's not necessarily the most satisfying answer in the world. I wonder about this too sometimes. Why? Why so much suffering? Why Hell? Why (fill in the blank)? I think it's okay to ask why. But I don't think God's answer would be anything different than what He told Job. God is God. He is who He is. And He will do things as He sees fit so that in the end He receives the glory.
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\"Living your life like you're trapped in a bad rap video is just not that appealing.\"
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BigBird
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« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2004, 10:16:29 PM » |
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My question is if God is timeless and designed our existence and everything, then why are we born without salvation(with sin) and THEN later are saved? How does that make sense?
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oneafroboy
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« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2004, 07:57:46 AM » |
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The Book of Life is already closed. Yes? It was closed before the foundations of the earth were laid.
So, from a very limited perspective, you aren't "saved" until you start to follow Christ. But, from an eternal perspective, because God knows who you are, you've already been sealed in the Book of Life.
So then the logical conclusion would be that when you become a Christian, you are made aware of your salvation. But then again, I think it's more than that. Maybe your decision to follow Jesus/Holy Spirit's circumcision on your heart is then sealed eternally, because God is omnipotent and outside of time...
(I'm not really sure, just spitting out ideas. My friend and I were actually talking about this last night. This is kind of our thinking...)
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\"Living your life like you're trapped in a bad rap video is just not that appealing.\"
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