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ash
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« on: February 22, 2004, 02:39:36 PM » |
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Is it alright for God's people to curse/cuss/use God's name in vian/etc?
Or are filler words such as "blast, shoot, dang," etc. alright?
Where/when should the line be drawn? Should there be one?
This is purely for opinion.
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« Last Edit: February 22, 2004, 02:40:31 PM by ash »
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\"God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world.\" -- C.S. Lewis (The Problem of Pain)
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bethany
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« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2004, 02:41:29 PM » |
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I think 'cussing' is fine depending on the time and place. I don't think using God's name in vain is ever appropriate (well, I'd make exceptions for art. But it's not appropriate for use in conversation).
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Vlad!
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« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2004, 03:50:14 PM » |
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If I weren't so lazy I'd link the like 500 other threads where we debate this same topic around and around  I think that swearing should be avoided, but in an intelligent way rather than just a knee-jerk "certain words are bad" approach. One should talk in accordance with scriptures such as Eph 4.29, not just avoiding certain words with clever substitutes but actually making sure that language as a whole is upbuilding and positive when appropriate, stern, angry or repremanding without being offensive or cruel when appropriate, and in general is neither vulgar nor profane. Blasphemy is never acceptable, and cursing (i.e. damning someone or telling them to go to hell) is something that society throws around far too casually. |
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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Josh
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« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2004, 04:05:31 PM » |
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Using swear words frequently demonstrates a small vocabulary and poor communication skills.
But all words have meanings, therefore all words must be appropriate at certain times. When used in moderation and at appropriate times, all words are acceptable to me. It's really all about context, and the ideas behind the word; words are, after all, only shells, and I'm not sure why God would care about certain combinations of letters. Surely it's the ideas behind these words that can sometimes anger Him.
Taking the Lord's name in vain, however, is not ever permissible. And that includes both flat-out swearing, but also throwing around Jesus' name without showing it the reverence that it deserves, like so many Christian pop songs have the tendency to do.
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« Last Edit: February 22, 2004, 04:05:58 PM by Josh »
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Vlad!
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« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2004, 06:26:30 PM » |
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But all words have meanings, therefore all words must be appropriate at certain times. When used in moderation and at appropriate times, all words are acceptable to me. It's really all about context, and the ideas behind the word; words are, after all, only shells, and I'm not sure why God would care about certain combinations of letters. Surely it's the ideas behind these words that can sometimes anger Him. We seem to be mostly on the same page, but I argue that though these words have legitimate meanings, that does not necessarily mean that there is *any* appropriate time for them to be used. I had the misfortune to sit in front of two exceptionally foul-mouthed people on a bus Friday, and I hate to sound like a geezer waving his cane, but some of the stuff they said was really quite grotesque. So while I agree that it's meanings, not words, which are offensive, some meanings just shouldn't be conveyed. |
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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Josh
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« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2004, 06:28:33 PM » |
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We seem to be mostly on the same page, but I argue that though these words have legitimate meanings, that does not necessarily mean that there is *any* appropriate time for them to be used. I had the misfortune to sit in front of two exceptionally foul-mouthed people on a bus Friday, and I hate to sound like a geezer waving his cane, but some of the stuff they said was really quite grotesque. So while I agree that it's meanings, not words, which are offensive, some meanings just shouldn't be conveyed. Right. Those people were either misusing the words or they were using them to express things that shouldn't be expressed in the first place. I'm with you on that. |
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ash
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« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2004, 09:01:51 PM » |
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It's really all about context, and the ideas behind the word; words are, after all, only shells, and I'm not sure why God would care about certain combinations of letters. Surely it's the ideas behind these words that can sometimes anger Him.
Do you like Isaiah 9:17 to heart more than the others? what about whatever is pure, holy, right, etc? Or maybe that doesn't count? I wonder. Proverbs 8:7 My mouth speaks what is true, for my lips detest wickedness. Proverbs 23:16 my inmost being will rejoice when your lips speak what is right Isaiah 9:17 Therefore the Lord will take no pleasure in the young men, nor will he pity the fatherless and widows, for everyone is ungodly and wicked, every mouth speaks vileness. Yet for all this, his anger is not turned away, his hand is still upraised. |
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\"God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world.\" -- C.S. Lewis (The Problem of Pain)
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Josh
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« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2004, 04:05:16 PM » |
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Proverbs 8:7
My mouth speaks what is true, for my lips detest wickedness.
Proverbs 23:16
my inmost being will rejoice when your lips speak what is right
Isaiah 9:17
Therefore the Lord will take no pleasure in the young men, nor will he pity the fatherless and widows, for everyone is ungodly and wicked, every mouth speaks vileness. Yet for all this, his anger is not turned away, his hand is still upraised. Those first two verses seem out of context; it seems to me that they are talking about the wickedness of lyting and telling untruths, which is not what this discussion is about. As for that final verse, it seems like vilness can be expressed without using "bad words," and, conversely, swear words don't always have to be used in a vile way. |
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ash
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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2004, 05:17:51 PM » |
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hm...
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\"God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world.\" -- C.S. Lewis (The Problem of Pain)
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Vlad!
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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2004, 06:41:45 PM » |
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I don't really see what the problem is here. A word is no more wicked than a keyboard or a radio. People can be wicked, and actions can be, and (most important to our conversation) meaning can be. Now, certain words have inherent meaning, almost apart from their context. This meaning is often referred to as connotation. This is (essentially) why certain words are deemed acceptable while others are not. But if we agree that it is wrong to be vulgar, profane, or blasphemous in the actions that we do and the meaning that we convey, why should that be a violation of any of the verses you quoted?
Let me tell you a (true) story. I read a news article about a girl who was placed on suspension from her first grade class because she used the word 'hell.' Problem is, what she said was 'if you don't believe in Jesus, you will go to hell.' I think we'd all agree that this is (essentially) correct. It's a valid use of the word, as Josh says, and the Bible itself uses it in that way. However, it violated the school's policy against swearing, and another child overheard and turned her in.
Now, this girl probably would not have been suspended had she said 'I hate you' or 'you're stupid' or one of the many other hurtful and cruel things that people say to each-other on what tragically is a daily basis. Yet these two phrases are much more 'wicked' in a Proverbs 8:7 sense than the one she did say. You see what I'm getting at?
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If you don’t have freedom as a principle, you can never see a reason not to make an exception. There are constantly going to be times when for one reason or another there’s some practical convenience in making an exception.
rms
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Josh
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« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2004, 07:15:19 PM » |
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Well said, Vlad!
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ash
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« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2004, 08:12:07 PM » |
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Right on, Vlad! I hadn't quite thought about that side of it before... =D
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\"God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world.\" -- C.S. Lewis (The Problem of Pain)
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